Topic: 1968 1000 OT

[Elweil]

Hello All
My name is Eric. I live in the US. I purchased my Fiat last year and have been working on up keep on this beauty. If there is anyone with general history of my car type please let me know.
thanks

[evannice]

Hi Eric,

That's a beauty!  What condition is it in, and what have you had to repair?  How does it drive?  I really like those wheels and hubcaps.  Post some engine and dash photos when you get a chance.  I have been working on a 1300/124 that looks very much like your car, see the thread in the 1300/124 folder.  I am pulling the gas tank to clean it out and sourcing a pushrod and a tappet.  Can't wait to drive it around after that!

Eric, San Diego CA 

[Pantdino]

Very beautiful car, Eric!  Does it still have the original engine?  Looks like a gem.

Jim

[Elweil]

Hello Pantdino,
The engine is now a A112. Not orginial from my understanding. She is a wonder to drive. I had her up to 90 going down the highway to work. The heads were a turning. I just got her last year. Redid most of the supension and brakes. Do you know the history of these cars at all?
Eric

[Elweil]

Hello Eric,
This is Eric!! The car is in very good condition. Some bondo here and there. The interior has some rips in the seat but the dash is very good. (I got the original Italian tach/speedometer) when I bought. The guy I bought it from had the floor panels done and some electrical done. Since I have owned it last March I have put in a leaf spring (Abrath), bushings, tie rods, brakes, brake lines, master, gaskets to block from radiator and the hoses. She still runs a little warm. I was thinking of locating a new one. I hope. She drives great. Well since the leaf spring, I bought new tires and she really needs to get aligned. I had her up to 90 going to work last summer going to work. You should have seen the heads turn. I love feeling every turn and bump along the way. She is a great car. The weather is supposed to be good up here in Wisconsin this weekend. I will take a few pics of the inside and engine. It's an A112 engine. If you have any history of these cars, I would love to hear it. I am still a novice at this but you have to start some where. Obviously our cars are built off the 850 type. Is your engine in the front? I assume cause of the grill??? You have quite a beauty yourself!!!
Cheers,
Eric

[Pantdino]

According to the book Abarth: The Man and the Machines, your car was introduced in 1965 and was based on the Fiat 850 Coupe, with the power increased from 47 DIN HP to 62 by virtue of the larger displacement and higher compression engine.  If your car now has an A112 A2 engine (look at the engine block serial number) it is putting out 70 hp, which is more than the Abarth-supplied radiator was designed to handle.  The car was also available with higher output 1 liter engines in OTS 1000 and OTR 1000 form and with a 1280cc engine based on the Fiat 124 engine, which is what the other Eric's car is.  The grill in the front on that car is for the radiator there to keep the bigger engine cool- the engine's still in the rear. 

If you have time you may want to take a picture of your engine and radiator and post it, as it may be possible to give some suggestions regarding better cooling by looking at it.  Is the sheetmetal below the engine and radiator present?  ( You shouldn't be able to see the ground below the fan and radiator)

Jim

[Elweil]

Jim,
I cannot thank you enough for that info. I have basically been trying to find out any information on my car for a year now. It means quite a bit to me. So thank you!!! I resently go some tires. With the new leaf spring the front end has been dropped an inch or two. Now the front wheel bend in. I want to get her in to do the tires and alignment. I am unsure of  the local garage. Would you know of anyone (I live in Milwaukee) that would be able to help out here? Where on the engine would I find the serial number? As you know, it is a wee bit cramped in there. I believe the engine floor was modified, for the exhaust? The weather is suppose to be good up here this weekend. I will take some more photos. I am so excited to finally get some info. I am not much of a mechanic, so any info I get is gold.
Eric

[Pantdino]

Hi,  Eric,

There are 4 road tests of your car of varying detail in the Brooklands Books Abarth Gold Portfolio.  I got mine on ebay not long ago, and it is a great source of reliable information.  Most of the articles mention that the OT 1000 had a stiffened and lowered suspension compared with the 850, but looking at the photos I don't see any discernible difference in where a line drawn back from the chrome trim strip on the side hits the center of the hubcap.  None of the tests mention a height or ground clearance for the car, but that of the 1300/124 is the same as the stock 850 coupe.

One of the articles mentions the front wheel alignment specs for your car:

front wheel toe-in:  0.08"
               camber:  1 deg - 1 deg 20'
                caster:   8-10 deg
   kingpin inclination:  4 deg 20'
 tire pressures   22 psi front, 24 psi rear  (having more of a difference will give you more understeer / less tendency to spin)

However, these numbers are for the cars sold by Radbourne in England and may not be the same as those sold elsewhere, as Radbourne bought stock 850s and converted the suspension themselves.

I happen to have a US factory workshop manual for the 850 that has these specs for the car UNLOADED ( no passengers or weight in the car):

camber:  1 deg +/- 15'
caster:   9 deg +/-  1 deg

so only the camber spec is different

Negative camber is when the tops of the tires are closer to the centerline of the car than the bottoms, so these specs are basically for vertical tires with a tiny bit of tip of the tops outward.

Aligning this front end would be a no-brainer for any competent alignment guy-- you just have to add or remove shims to get the number you need.  You may want to check with your local SCCA people and see who they take their race cars to if your regular local shops don't want to take time away from the busy schedule working on "Yank Iron" to do your car.

Actually the manual says the camber can be changed without upsetting the caster if the same number of shims are added to or or removed from both mounting studs. These are where the upper part of the front suspension attaches to the body.  If you have too much negative camber now (the tires lean in at the top when viewed from the front of the car) you just need to add shims or washers to those studs to move the upper suspension mounting point outward.  You could probably just use a regular bubble level to set the wheel vertical. 

If you are interested in doing this I could scan the diagram from the manual. 

As it happens I'll be in Wales, WI from June 1 to 4 for my niece's wedding.  It's just south of Delafield on Hwy 83, according to Mapquest.

Where are you in Milwaukee?  It would be cool to see your car, if you're going to be around.

Jim

[Elweil]

Jim
Thank you again. My brain is in overdrive now. I have gone so long without getting good info on this car, I did not know what direction to go. Now I have a flood of info and a chance to go book hunting as well. Yes please scan the diagram. It would be much appriecated. I am familiar where Wales is. I have driven through the town. I would be honored to meet up the weekend of June 1-4. As the time draws near I can forward my phone number and we certainly can get together. It is not every day I get to meet a fellow Fiat fantic. I live about 5 miles north of Miller Park. We can meet anywhere though. There is nothing like taking a ride in the Fiat. I must of drove it about 2000 miles last year. I will be taking pics today of the car and posting. So until then...
Eric

[Elweil]

I am sure you guys can figure out where I took these pics. Let me know what you guys are thinking. It is obviously modified. Where can I get the engine id number?
Eric

[Pantdino]

Hi, Eric,

I'm a relative newcomer to Abarths myself, but I think if I had your car I'd feel good about it.  The previous owner was knowledgeable enough to install the Alquati intake manifold / carb adapter so the carb sits in the proper orientation and you can get the valve cover off without removing the carb.  The cheap way is just to use the A112 manifold / cover single unit.

Also I see your car has electronic ignition, which is always a good thing.

It's also interesting that they have adapted the A112 motor to use the original generator, water pump, and fan.  Frequently they use the alternator and "shorty" water pump and use an electric fan on the radiator.

The cutout in the sheet metal below the radiator may be factory, as Abarth fit a taller radiator in some of his cars to improve cooling.  Looks like that was the case here.  When I had my 850 Coupe I had overheating problems which I finally found out was due to the radiator fins being full of dirt and debris which prevented air from flowing thru it.  You may want to check yours by removing the shroud and taking a look.

Here are a couple of photos of the 850 body style, the first being my old car.  They are such pretty cars.

Below that are scans of the page of the workshop manual on front end alignment. The specs for the Coupe are the same. 

In the "Tightening" section it says the nuts that hold the top of the shock to the body should be tightened to 25 ft-lb, while the nut that holds the upper A-arm to the body (where the shims are) should be tightened to 35.

I see in the photos that these cars have atypical suspension geometry, where the wheels go into NEGATIVE camber when the suspension drops  and positive when it is compressed up toward the car. Most cars are the other way around.

What is your email address? We will probably want to exchange phone numbers off line.  With my cell phone plan I can call anywhere in the country free, so if you have questions that come up and need a quick answer you could give me a call. I might not know the answer, however.

Jim

[Pantdino]

Oops-- forgot to answer your question

Assuming Fiat put the ID numbers in the same place on the A112 engines as the 850 engines, you should look on the end of the engine block facing you as you  stand at the rear of your car.  Look just below where the lower generator attaching point is, where there is a flat, machined surface.  This is to the right of the timing chain cover.  The SN will start with A112. Then you'll see an A2, A1, or A5.  A2= 70hp, A1= 58 hp, and A5= 42 hp.  It looks like your previous owner knew what he was doing, so I'll probably be an A2.

If you don't see anything there, look on the side of the block below where the header is attached..

Jim

[viotti600]

Also I see your car has electronic ignition, which is always a good thing.

Uhhh...Jim? This car does NOT have electronic ignition. That is a standard late-model Marelli points-type ignition distributor, complete with clip-on style cap & the condensor located directly underneath the distributor body (as seen in photos).

It's also interesting that they have adapted the A112 motor to use the original generator, water pump, and fan.  Frequently they use the alternator and "shorty" water pump and use an electric fan on the radiator.

It looks as though the previous owner used an A112 engine with a few 903cc 850 engine parts to complete the conversion (903 exhaust unit, valve cover, alloy sump, maybe the cam & oil pump driveshaft?). That is the original European type 850/OT generator (smaller than USA type). The radiator looks to be a modified late 850 unit (horizontal upper outlet tube, uses question mark-shaped top hose), with the front metal shroud modified to allow relocation of the opening for the fan blade - an adapter plate is likely fitted between the A112 block & the 850 water pump (common mod), which results in a different inclination angle of the water pump & the fan end being slightly offset a bit on an X-Y axis (you can see the rivets in the sheetmetal where the top of the radiator shroud was modified).

Abarth did not use a taller radiator on the OT's like those used on the 600-based 750 models. However, Fiat 850's had two different radiator types; early type was taller & had a vertical upper outlet tube (tube stuck up out of the radiator top, pointing over towards engine, like on a Fiat 600), late type was shorter & had a horizontal upper outlet tube (tube stuck out the front of the radiator top, pointing towards rear of car). An OT of this vintage would normally have the early type Fiat 850 radiator. Also, the passenger-side engine bay underpanels were specific to the type of radiator used; early type were deeper at the leading edge (for obvious reasons). The OT underpanels had no cut-outs done by Abarth (unless a mid- or front-mounted radiator was used). The rather crude cut-outs on this car's underpanels look to have been done merely for convenience (quick hose access &/or clearance).

I see in the photos that these cars have atypical suspension geometry, where the wheels go into NEGATIVE camber when the suspension drops  and positive when it is compressed up toward the car. Most cars are the other way around.

The 850/OT are indeed "like most cars"; if suspension drops, wheels go into POSITIVE camber (bottom of wheels in, top of wheels out). In compression, wheels go into NEGATIVE camber (bottom of wheels out, top of wheels in).

Just have two fat guys sit on the front (or rear) of your 850, & you'll see what I mean!  //-----\\   {=^o

Erik,
 Can you read any of the stamped numbers on your chassis ID plate? (located on firewall above exhaust header pipes, held on by 2 screws, currently oversprayed in red paint). Curious to see your chassis type code...100GC000?


Cheers,
-JS.

[Elweil]

That is the original European type 850/OT generator So you are saying that is a 40 year old generator???
Awesome!!!!!

The rather crude cut-outs on this car's underpanels look to have been done merely for convenience (quick hose access &/or clearance).
Is that something I should put on my to do list??

Just have two fat guys sit on the front (or rear) of your 850, & you'll see what I mean! That should be the easiest thing I can do for the car, as I live in Wisconsin. {{:[]

The first set of pics were from last year before I put on the new leaf spring. I took her out yesterday and I noticed the tires were no longer  \---/. This may be a dumb question but I stored the car for winter. Would it "naturally" "straighten" the alignment of the tires to the body??


Chassis code is Fiat 100GC*0153178

There is another plate screwed in above the chassis code.
39370M
153178
0122420
Is on that plate. What is that??
I thank you for all the extended info here. All of it will certainly help me maintain the car correctly. 
Cheers
Eric

[evannice]

Eric in Wisconsin,

Great photos and really a beautiful example of the car!  Can you tell me if it has a windshield washer fluid reservoir, what type, and where is it mounted?  Trying to figure out what belongs on my car.  Thanks,

Eric in San Diego