Topic: triger kits (belt). is this good or should i stay away?

[alapimba]

Hi
I'd like to know whats your opinion about the triger kits with belt.
Is this a good upgrade or it'sbetter stay away from it because the belt sometimes broke and the damage on the engine is huge?

Thanks

[Pantdino]

Paul Vander Heijden of Scuderia Topolino says to stay away from them. The problem is that the only belts you can get were made 30 years ago, so even if it has never been used it is old and brittle.  When it breaks, valves and rods get bent.  When I got my car recently, Paul had the previous owner change the belt system back to a chain before I bought it. 

[zippyfiat]

These cogged belts were (are) used in A112s and also Fiat 127s (as far as I know) and there has to be a lot of these cars still running with them.  The Triger cog belt setups are an aftermarket item.  I have a new Triger kit and I bought an Abarth cover for it.  I bought several NOS belts (easy to find in Italy) and I don't expect to have problems.  I have no idea what the recommended belt replacement interval is.  For street use, I think these should be okay.  Didn't the late Abarths use them in racing?

Gil

[ChrisD]

If the belt is new I belive there is no problem. Besides most of modern cars use belt, not chain. How soon should the belst be chained in order to brevent something bad from happening? Evry 15000Km is ok?

My other question about the belt is: Is there a gain on power in the engine or the gain is so small that better keep the chain on???

[Pantdino]

My understanding is that modern cars use them because they are cheaper and quieter than chains to drive overhead cams, which all modern cars have.
I believe Ferraris that use belts have to have them changed every 3 years ($$$$!) even if the car was not driven very much.
There was a discussion of this on ferrarichat.com, and it was stated that all Ferrari race engines use chains. If belts were so good, wouldn't the race engines have them?  This is also true of BMW M engines.

Jim

[zippyfiat]

I think that there are two reasons to use the cogged belts.  One is that the standard chain tends to wear out rather quickly.  There is no way to adjust the slack in them, like in some engines.  The result of a worn/stretched chain is that the cam and ignition timing will be off.  The other benefit is that the rotating mass is less, and the engine *should* rev up a little better.  I really want to see how these are and am going to try the set that I have.  I don't expect to be putting a lot of kilometers on my car.

Gil

[Paul vander Heyden]

Belts VS Chains

I have asked several times if someone can POSITIVELY document a source for NEW belts for the Triger kits.  By this I mean belts that have been MANUFACTURED in the last 12-24 months.  All I have ever found is New- OLD STOCK (NOS), which is precisely the problem.

The problem is not in the design of the system.  After all, some NASCAR teams use the Jesel belt drive system successfully.  The problem lies in the construction technology/age of the belts themselves.  To date no one has been able to positively say when the belts they are selling were made.  So, this being the case I MUST assume that, even though they are "new", they have been sitting in a warehouse somewhere for a long time.  I can still remember when Wolfgang Doehring, a leading competitor in the German Abarth Coppa Mille series DIV. 3, came to his first race with an immaculately prepared 1000TC.  It made a lot of horsepower and qualified very well on Saturday for the race on Sunday.  On Sunday he started well, but the belt broke after only a few laps.  WHAT A MESS !! 

Sure, over time chains stretch, but I have never seen one break.  Then again there are good, and better, chains available for Fiat motors, so choose carefully.  ZippyFiat notes that they wear out rather quickly ?  What is quickly?  100,000 KMS?  Sure, you might get a little ignition scatter at higher RPMs, but that is infinitely better than a bucket full of worthless, broken parts.

Let's get serious though.  If "ultimate ignition timing" is the end objective, then why not convert to a helical gear drive, as was done on the Abarth TCR motors.  All that it requires is two gears and a camshaft that has been ground for reverse rotation (like an 850 camshaft).  The engine will still rotate clockwise (RH) but the cam will turn anti-clockwise (LH).  Assuming that good lubrication is available, this should solve any ignition scatter problems.  Moreover the whole solution fits inside the original timing cover and no one except you will ever know the difference.  Watch my site for a new announcement in a few days on this subject.

Best regards,

Paul Vanderheijden
www.scuderiatopolino.com