Topic: how do you put a 850 motor in a 600 and reverse engine rotation

[DaveA]

Hi

whats the cheapest way to reverse the rotation of an 850 motor so it will go in a 600 ?

can I just use the 600 cam in the 850 block  to reverse it ?

I have also heard of an extra set of timing gears to reverse the rotation,

Will the alterrnator on the 850 work running backwards ?

will the water  pump work backwards ?
will the oil pump work backwards ?

I can get a cheap $100 running 850 motor ,
I would like to use it  while I  look for an A112 which  might take 6 months or more

thanks for your help

Dave

PS.....what was the reason that Fiat made the 850 motor run the opposite way ?
was it planned for a FWD Fiat ?

[Pantdino]

There is a fairly long chapter in the Braden and Schmidt book about how to do this, and it is fairly involved. I think you'd just be wasting time and money doing it unless your final goal was to have an 850 motor. 

Jim

[DaveA]

is  the Braden and Schmidt book on the  web somewhere ?

I have heard about it but never saw it  in a store

If anyone has a copy please let me know

Thanks

Dave

[zippyfiat]

Dave, there is a copy of Greg Scmidt's book for sale on ebay (US) right now:

http://cgi.ebay.com/HCB-Abarth-An-Incomplete-Guide-to-the-Many-

It's a bit expensive, but this book is very hard to find these days.   I've had my copy for about 30 years and will not part with it!!

Gil

[Pantdino]

The instructions to put an 850 motor in a 600-based car take 11 pages in the Braden and Schmidt book and describe some special parts you have to buy.
My suspicion is that these parts will VERY hard to find these days, as most people use 1050 motors.

Because the book is now out of print and buying one on Amazon.com (there are two on there now, the cheapest being $78 plus shipping) will not put any money into the pocket of the original publisher or the authors, I think it would be OK to scan those pages and send them to you in an email.

If you send me a Message with you email address I'll send them to you.

Jim

[Paul vander Heyden]

Putting an 850 motor in a 600 really only requires the following:

An A112 camshaft (CW rotation)  You cannot use the Fiat 600 cam as the cam bearing diameters are smaller.
An A112 oilpump shaft (CW rotation)
A 600D input shaft
A Fiat 850 clutch
A Fiat 850 pressure plate
A Fiat 850 flywheel
A Fiat 600 water-pump.

Of course this is the basics only.  You will need a good machinist to finish off the flywheel assembly.  You should also change the oil circulation system to a full flow system with a drilled center main (instructions on my site).

Now that you have more power you will also have to deal with cooling, but that is yet another problem.

Also, you will want to put nice wheel and tires on, right?  Read on my site about replacing the 'crush sleeve' on the rear axles.  VERY IMPORTANT !!!

This should get you started.

Regards,

Paul Vanderheijden
www.scuderiatopolino.com

[viotti600]

Don't forget to use the 600D type (clockwise rotation) crankshaft oil seals on that 850 engine (or the non-rotational type 850 seals).

-JS.

[DaveA]

is there easy way to put the 850 gearbox in a 600 ?

I heard the 850 gearbox is too wide, is that  true ?

Dave

[trevor]

Hello Dave,
Here are some issues involved with 850 box installations in 600 chassis.
I can email you the reference source if you wish
Regards   Trevor

[zippyfiat]

Hi Dave, I installed an 850 transaxle in a 600 once.  It was a LOT of work for little gain.  Trevor has provided some good info. on the conversion.  You end up with synchro in 1st and you can use a stock 850 motor without having to reverse the rotation, but...  You have to butcher the chassis and do a lot of cutting and welding to get it to work.  It is quite difficult to get the axles aligned, and if you don't, you'll be eating up the rubber-filled couplings every few days.   You MUST relocate the rear pickup points for the trailing arms (due to 850 case being wider), and you have to consider what this does to the suspension geometry and handling.

Personally, I'd rather invest my time and money in reversing the rotation of an 850 motor any day over putting in an 850 transaxle.

Gil

[DaveA]

thanks for the info,

I am just looking for info , I do not want  to butcher anything up,

Just looking for the cheapest way  to get the best 600
and 650s are real cheap around here to buy for parts,

Thanks

Dave

[Paul vander Heyden]

Dave,

While I appreciate your desire to accomplish your end goal in the least expensive way, consider the following.

In the real world the terms "cheap" and "best" are somehow almost always mutually exclusive.  Consider wine for example.  It would be an extraordinary event to find a cheap bottle of wine that had an award winning taste and bouquet.  This is not to say that it is not possible, just highly unlikely.

Additionally, you may find the following maxim of some value as it is applied to the to the "cheap" and "best" dichotomy.

"The least expensive may to do anything is to do it right the rist time, the most expensive way to do anything is to do it right the second time."

Best regards,

Paul Vanderheijden
Scuderia Topolino