cars in museum > Fiat Abarth 1000 TCR
1000TCR on eBay - Real or fake?
viotti600:
I have a small wager with a friend concerning the authenticity of a "1000 TCR" car currently listed on eBay.
http://search.ebay.com/220669430371
I think the car is likely a fake (replica), my friend follows the seller's claim that it is an original 1968 Fiat Abarth 1000TCR Group 5 car. Can anyone here confirm either viewpoint? (Discuss!)
There are several things I see in the eBay photos that put up a red (or yellow) flag to me. They are:
1. As far as I know, the green/red paint scheme was never an Abarth factory "Werks" color scheme (seller claims it is). The red side stripes are shaped wrong, too. A true Group 5 car would have the number "5" in the front/center square of the painted checkerboard roof pattern (just above the windshield).
2. Emblem on front grille is incorrect, should have the horizontal tri-color top (red/white/green, not solid blue) which was used on 1-liter+ cars.
3. Front "whiskers" on each side of the front grille are standard Fiat 600, which the TCR did not use (TCR had longer/thinner whiskers that weren't a stock Fiat part).
4. Front hood straps are in the wrong location & are mounted upside-down (!).
5. Car is missing the vertical/tandem windshield wipers assembly.
6. Campagnolo wheels are incorrect sizes for a 1968 Gr. 5 car (used narrower 6" Campagnolo wheels of similar design, same size front/rear).
7. Rear fender flares are the wrong size; should be the smaller-size flares not the real big ones as seen on the car.
8. Rear decklid props are not the 3-leg type Abarth used.
9. Trio of Abarth/Jaeger dashboard gauges are missing.
10. Oil pressure gauge & housing in center of dash are not authentic type.
11. Steering wheel looks incorrect? (bolt-on center ring?)
12. Vertical knee braces are missing from drivers door & center floor tunnel.
13. Rear starter motor/transmission cover is of different design.
14. Fram/Carello vertical oil filter unit is missing from passenger side of engine bay (though it was optional on race cars).
15. Was the horizontal rear-exit type exhaust system used on the 1968 Gr. 5 cars? (I thought it was straight-pipe stinger type?)
16. Seller claims the car has front dual-wishbone & rear tubular "Pendolare" type suspension...but no photos???
17. Seller notes that the the Radiale head boosted the car to 112HP @8400rpm, but that spec is for 1970-on cars, not 1968 (earlier version had 85-108HP @ 8400rpm depending on state of tune).
18. Seller claims this is an ex-Barry Ward car. If I recall correctly, Barry Ward's car was a 1000 Corsa, not a TCR. A small photo I have of Barry's car shows it looking similar- but not identical- to this car being sold.
19. MAJOR ISSUE: This car does not have a TCR engine! That's an A112/127 type engine block (spin-on oil filter on left side) with a TCR head on it! (Also incorrect type alternator & oil vapor collector).
Any comments?
zippyfiat:
I agree Jeff, this car screams fake all over. I don't see anything other than the head that jumps out and says yep, that's an Abarth. I agree with everything you said. I would be willing to bet real money the car isn't real.
There is someone near me that has a 68 Berlina Corsa that I have seen a number of times. It has all of the right stuff on it and it makes one drool to see it in person. The ebay car looks like a wannabe Abarth enthusiast modified a stock 600 in comparison.
Haven't spent time studying this, but a quick summary of things I see:
The rear fender flares should definitely be the early smaller version. The front flares are wrong and are from a 70 and later model. The front hood straps are upside down. The rad. shroud looks wrong. It isn't fitted correctly, the holes on each side are wrong, and the mesh grille (or whatever is on it) is wrong. The entire dash is a joke. The Carello remote oil filter assembly should be where the stock rad. is, but the engine photos aren't the greatest. The block mounted oil breather tower, "trident" and catch tank aren't there. The wheels look wrong. The exhaust is definitely wrong for a '68. Seats are wrong. I think the rear inner wheel wells are supposed to be factory modified (widened), but these look like stock 600 ones? The clutch, brake and gas pedals have cheapo aftermarket add-on alloy pads (I have a set I want to get rid of). Fispa fuel press. regulator/filter is missing as is the coolant expansion tank/filler. The rear deck lid props are not attached in the correct location and the modification to clear the exhaust is wrong. The Abarth stamping in the engine compartment somehow looks incorrect, but I could be wrong. The exhaust does not look quite the same as ones in a couple of books I looked at and looks more like a replica. The rear engine support strengthening plate *might* be correct but the photos don't show it clearly. Modern aeroquip lines are wrong.
I suspect that this is a restoration gone awry. Someone may have purchased a basket case and screwed up the work. Why do people insist on installing the late style rear fender bulges on early cars that NEVER had them? I hate that....
Gil Nicholls
viotti600:
This same car is shown on the Scuderia Topolino gallery page, 11th photo down on the left side at http://www.scuderiatopolino.com/gallery.php
A 1968 1000TCR Gr. 5 car should look like this:
http://www.bernimotori.com/abarth_1000_tcr_en.html ;)
guy moerenhout:
I think I will change price for my remake.
ChrisD:
I must agree with Gil and the rest of you. The car seems to be a good replica that could fool someone if the owner had given a little more attention to small detales that make the diference.
Just to add something, looking at the pictures I noticed that the top mounts of the dampers - coilovers are diferent than the stock 600 ones so the seller might actually tell the truth about the car having pendolare rear arms and front indipended suspention. However...no pics of that or maybe some undercar pics or even pics from the brakes.
By the way, the 5speed gearbox had this layout of gears? I mean R on the top left and 1st bottom left???
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