abarth squadra storica forum
abarth cars - community => fiat abarth OT 850 -> 2000 => Topic started by: guy moerenhout on March 18, 2012, 11:01:34 am
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Fred Winkel start this nice remake project in Holland . Have a look
http://forum.abarth-gmr.be/index.php?topic=4196.0
http://www.via850.nl/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=76
fredabarth
fredabarth@yahoo.co.uk
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Hello Fred,
Thank you for the great series of photos of your progress, and it is a lot of work.
I am glad you find the time and effort to share your experience with others.
I expect you will find the 1600 OT a very different machine from the OT 1000 berlina you use in DART etc. racing, even while that looks a very well sorted vehicle itself. I have had a look at it on some websites, although my lack of Dutch language skills leaves me to interpret what is being said; the photos there are good.
I note on another website that in your 1600 OT replica you are using a 105TC motor with a Porsch 914 transmission. In one photo there, and partially seen in DSC3564 on this website, your adaptor plate looks like a PBS 124 / VW adaptor ring. If it is not a PBS one and is from some other manufacturer, would you please indicate if such a source is currently available ?
Thank you for posting the full version of the "see through" illustration of the 1600 OT Berlina, it helps explain detail in a number of photos of various cars.
In answer to your question, I am not building a similar 1600 OT car though I have assisted an friend while he has built both a OT 2000 Coupe (a number of years ago), and a OT 2000 Berlina (in progress), with 5 speed, and 4 speed VW Beetle transmissions respectively. In both cases a heavy duty version of the 1300/124/850 sling has been used for motor support, hence my interest last week in the chassis reinforcing to engine bay sides to support your motor in manner as per the original.
Photos attached show the current state of body work of the berlina...a 1995cc Fiat twincam is installed.
An interesting task was the fabrication of the replica front grille, quite a challenge in metal shaping for an artisan, the grille mesh itself has still to be made. Some photos show the mule front panel, the drawing of the grille frame profile on that panel, and the grille framework as then fabricated.
My own interest has been more in variants of the pushrod 124 motors in 850s using the engine sling method along with Abarth / PBS bellhousings mated to 850 based transmissions. The last photo shows a 1995cc 132 pushrod (ex Campagnola or ex 242E commercial) with a PBS bellhousing in the background. The 1995cc motors, having the same crank / cam spacing as the 124 pushrod are easily reversed in their rotation to use 850 based transmissions.
I look forward to watching your progress, and thanks again for the information.
Regards, Trevor
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Hello Fred,
Thanks for the further photos of your progress, and to the authenticity of detail eg door / handle type.
The owner of the OT 2000 Berlina replica in my photo prefers to remain anonymous, but is a Fiat Abarth fan like me. We indulge our hobby ourselves some four decades after we were unable to do so in our youth.
About adaptor rings for Fiat twincams / Porsche transaxles, yesterday I identified a current source, (Jason Miller of) Miller's Mule Machine and Design of Katy Texas USA www.millersmule.com who supplies a very useful range of machine parts for twincam Fiats and some other makes. The product listing includes the adapter ring, and also a full conversion kit eg flywheel/clutch/starter/adaptor/transaxle/hardware.
Enjoy your weekend in the workshop.
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Hi
There is also a guy in Australia (Queensland) that makes up all kinds of adaptors to fit VW gearboxes not sure if he can do one for Porsche.
He makes them to suit Fiat twin cam engines see website for complete package details www.volksconversions.com.au/
I understand his work is very good.
Renato
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Very nice job!!! :)
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Hi Guy. Just looking at the post about Fred Abarth's dual brake cylinder
conversion. Tried to leave a comment but I'm not good with computers! Could
you tell him that he needs to make a pivot for the lateral black bar which
pushes on the two cylinders as they always travel slightly different
distances. If not it will bend the pushrod
Cheers Simon Thomas
simon.thomas1962@gmail.com
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Wow that looks good and fast too. Perhaps you should offer him a job Guy!
Just make sure there's plenty of clearance at the back of each clevis because the bar will sometimes twist 20 or 30 degrees.....
Cheers
Simon Thomas
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Nice work Fred ,you can do it in our place also one in your holyday
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Nice work Fred ,you can do it in our place also one in your holyday
Hi Guy, That is an option, but I've got still al lot to do!!! I want the paint on the car at the and of the summer!!!
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welding is possible . Whe do it also .
You can turn both side off in a point and welding togheter. After this you can also turn it off on machine ,take a tube over and weld tube on two sides.
Abarth make this even and the 131 gr 4 cars to make cardans stronger
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WOW, really nice! :)
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Hi Fred
Great work..keep it up
Can you lel me know the length of each axel?
Renato
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I think you must mesure this on your car .
Al is different
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better than Abarth did ? great job
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Thanks, Guy!!
I'll do my best!
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Really nice!
Thanks for sharing. :-)
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Thank you Toonhyper!!
I'm glad you like it.
How is your car doing at the moment?
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Tuning, prepare for the next event "Thailand Fiat Day 2012" :)
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Wow Fred, that is one fantastic and detailed project! The nice modifacation and reupholstering to your seats has really got my attention! I hope you don't mind but I will be doing the same to my OT Replica ,what seats did you start with? they don't look like sedan seats,coupe? ,thanks for the detailed photo's and infomation,
After looking at your project ,I have a long road ahead!
Regards Rubino.
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Hello Rubino,
Thank you for your compliment about my projekt.
The seat I use were from a Fiat 850 coupé!!! and rebuild them totaly, so you can see at the pictures.
Succes with your projekt and send some pictures of it!!!
I'm almost 4 years busy with building my OT1600.
Kind regards,
Fred
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Hi Fred,
Thank you for taking the time and answering my post, yes I will post some photo's when I get into it ,I have the 850 sedan but at the moment just collecting parts to be ready! Front OT 1600/2000 Grill seems tobe a problem, so I have asked Guy for help in that one, in remake or maybe a simca is close he said, just waiting to look at a photo of them before buying, I normally make all I need but looks like something that a bought one would look better than what I could do.
Kind Regards Rubino
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Hello Rubino,
I'm going to make my own frontgrill out of stainless steel. See pics a few pages back.
I can show you the result when it finished and can make a second one or more ofcourse.
I hope to finish my OT early 2013.
Groet,
Fred
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Hello Fred,
If you can that would be well received! if you want to make a second, I need is the main part with the mesh and FIAT ABARTH on it, I have bought the basic rounded of triangle ABARTH badged grill........what am I saying, sell me the lot Fred!
fijne kerstdagen en een fantastisch 2013!......Rubino
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Hello Rubino,
I'll do my best!!
And we're you from?
Perfect dutch........so!
Ook een fijne kerst en een goed 2013!!
Groet,
Fred
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Hi Fred,
I would love to tell you I'm a multi-linguist........but the truth is Google translate is a fantastic thing! I can read and understand several languages but dutch is not one sorry,my background is Israeli but I am first born in Australian!(don't hold that against me,HaHa!)
The language we all understand here is OT Abarth! of this I see you speak fluently and have my respect!
Regards,Rubino
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Hi Fred
I wanted to ask you because you have done it , why did you choose the porsche 901 gearbox? speedo cable drive? gear ratios? drive plate size?
I have a vw type 3 and was going to use it,I have the adaptor and axels, but after reading most people use the 901 I have to ask, is there a upside to me dumping the vw box for the 901? will the axels still fit?
Regards, Rubino
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Hi Rubino,
At first I want to use the 914 gearbox, cheaper than the 911, but still the 901 type.
I want to use the 901 type, because it is a 5-speed gearbox. I don't know if the VW type 3 is a 5-speed gearbox!?
You can use the cable for the speedo, but I've got an electronic one, so no problems with other cables.
I can't tell you if the axels still fit!!
Have good 2013 and hopefully a lot of fun with building your OT1600!!
Groet,
Fred
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A 901 use the small cardan size like VW ,fiat X 1/9 etc...9;90 cm I think
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I notify a difference between the 914 gearbox and the 911 gearbox.
Both 901 types, but the 914 where smaller.
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some 901 box are 10 cm like Lancia ,Ford scorpion, BMW ,Fiat 124 abarth
Last serie 911 bow is 12 cm like the group 4 Fiat 131 abarth cars
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Hi Fred,
You said that you are using a electronic type speedo, are you driving this from a converter on the gearbox? or from a driveshaft and not the gearbax at all? does the 901 speedo drive not match the fiat cable type? sorry to ask specific questions but I am at that point in my conversion/build.
Regards, Rubino
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So, you're going quick in your build then.
I had the chance to buy a electronic speedo and I fit it on the driveshaft of the gearbox.
I'm not busy with that part of the build, so I can't be more specific about it.
The Fiat cable doesn't fit in the 901 gearbox, but maybe you can use a speedo from a porsche 911 and the cable from a 911. I think I've got a porsche cable at home!
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I maybe going at this backwards,but I.m doing the mechanicals first then the body work, my Berlina has no rust so dent removal and flare fitting/painting I want to do at the end. I am amazed at how strong the 850 gearbox is as Guy has stated and now you. Making a bell housing no problem ,this sounds better than 901 with issues! I have a few spare 850 Sc gearboxes.
thanks Fred!
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Fred ,your work inspires! this is good for me to move on mine, keep up the fantastic work!!!
Regards, Rubino
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Hi Fred, Nice work as always, I am changing my direction on the project and starting with body, will buy and collect special parts like front grill etc ,but the upgrade to bodywork like yours must be done first, lesson learnt!
Regards, Rubino
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Hello Rubino,
Thanks for the compliments.
When you will start with the body think also about the wheels you want to use, because of the space in the original wheelarea.
Good luck and if you want to know anything!
Place some pics of your car!
Fred
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Great story , i like finding out about what actually was done at the time. Articles like these are fantastic.
Keep up the good work
Ras
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Hi Fred
Being of Italian heritage the first article article makes sense. I have seen that many other articles and info on the web mentioning "Mostra" which actually translates in Italian to mean "show" or "display". so the correct terminology that should be associated the 850 belina is "Mostro" meaning monster in Italian.
I am building a replica OT 2000 Coupe America...slowly
If you find any articles i'd love to see them. i have been able to find some old magazines with articles in German, however, i can't read German but the pics are great for reference.
Ras
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Hi Fred
Love the article and pics from the Japanese Museum. I have heard a lot about this one. It has my favorite car in the collection the Pininfarina 2000 concept. I have had a poster of the car on my wall since i was a young boy. It is on the list to visit one day.
Ras
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Well there is more we share! Fred, Ras , I to had that Abarth 2000 poster on my wall and the dinky for years, a petrol company used it in its promotion once ,do you remember which one?
Regards, Rubino
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Here is the poster. I've never seen one since. Mobil was the oil company. there are the specs at the bottom of the poster.
Details are Fiat Abarth 2000, 4 cylinder, Rear mounted engine, Displacement 1946cc, Horsepower 250, RPM 8000, twin overhead camshaft, two Weber DSOE 58 carburetors, Length 13' 6", Width 5' 11", Weight 14.5 cwt, Max speed 167mph, Designed by Pininfarina, Lubricated by Mobiloil Super.
Rubino as you are just around the corner from me, you know you are welcome to come over anytime and we can just sit and look this work of art.
Ras
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Thanks Ras, Nice offer but have a good look at Freds pictures, I would rather look at his Abarth 2000 all day, it has better curves!
all jokes aside that is one of the most beautiful cars in the world bar none!!!
Ras maybe after the OT's we look at how to do a couple of those?!?! or maybe just the model?
thanks Fred and Ras nice posters! - Regards Rubino
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Haha, it's a very nice car to make a replica of!!
Just do it.
I'll go for this one!!!! The OT1600 spider.
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Fred, you just started something in me, any help in body parts? or information?
Regards, Rubino
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Thank you so much for your warm sharing. :)
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TOP!!!
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Fred ,its a brother of mine ?
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Yep!!!
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That is getting better looking by the day!..... Love the updates Fred!
Regards, Rubino
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nice work Fred.
it is coming together nicely
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almost ready for 18 MAY ?
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I will do my best!!!
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Ha ha, 4 years for mine ... still not done yet! :-)
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Really nice work Fred, thanks for sharing the build photos and story.
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I think only Fred can remake some in glasfiber
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Hi Fred, Nice work as always!! I have been stuck working- no fun stuff, but now back on the fun job, good to watch your OT come together! Regards Rubino
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Tonight did some prepwork for the spoiler to show what I ment about using an original engine cover.
I took a used engine cover and cut out the metal I didn't use.
The pics says it all, I think.
After cut out the metal I the engine cover only weight 1350 gram. I think the fiberglass spoiler will weight less than 1000 gram.
Together about 2350 gram.
I will glue the spoiler on the metal cover.
Compare the cutted cover with the original picture of the article I send
But first I'll make the engine cover clean and rust free
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teacher way of working,not to ...... sorry Fred
Joke
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Hello
your project is awesome, I'm trying to do something similar.
be sure to post pictures
greetings from Barcelona spain
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HELLO
that color code did you use to paint it?
sorry for my english, use a translator, it may not be entirely correct.
I want more pictures, as I can hang some pictures of mine
best regards
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HELLO
that color code did you use to paint it?
sorry for my english, use a translator, it may not be entirely correct.
I want more pictures, as I can hang some pictures of mine
best regards
Hello diogenes850n,
The color I used on my OT is an original color of the Fiat 850 and also from Lada.
It is: Sabbia beige 583.
What kind of pictures do you want from the car?
Regards,
Fred
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hi tubes through which pass the water system,
'd have pictures of water circuit.
best regards.
Roger Barneau
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As soon as I have pictures of the watersystem I will send them!!
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thank you!! 're a great Cadre'm also building one and you serve your reforms are great me much
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Hola más fotos
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thank you very much, I will try to make them as yours. You are a master will have more photos of the trunk .. this great regards
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I thank these pictures are very well.This very neat what you do thank you very much regards
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I'm glad you can use the pics.
What are you going to do with the back fender?
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I'll put one of marbella 903cc engine, I can not change the mechanics here in Spain would give much problems with legislation to legalize shalt put your 1600? vialvero
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Thank you Fred for sharing your work with your OT remake,the work you have done with your car is fantastic!
Road test 0t1600
http://www.fichier-pdf.fr/2010/12/28/fiatabarth1600ot/
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hello, well as I would like to put that motor.
your car is running amazing.
the rear brakes, which do you use?
thanks for the pictures, do not forget to update the progress.
best regards
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Wow! I like very much your work. The rearfenders are perfect. I have seen that you have also done the rear bonnet ( where is the license plate is)
I'm curios to know how you have made it.
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A pic from FAZA site
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Some updates about what I'm doing at the moment.
I'm building up the doors. Using some old parts and some new parts.
The new parts are the alu pieces around the window, I'm not sure what the name is for these parts in english!!
I brushed the new parts to let it look better. And then I put them into a layer of clear coat.
The small windows I had them in stock. One was in a good codition and the other needed some TLC.
Used a rubber of another window and they will go together this week. Then it's time to complete the doors.
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Thank you again Fred. I have heard and read about Engelbert Moell and his fabolous Abarth collection, and that he got a ot1600 that was under restoration.
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I saw the pictures of his OT1600 and it is in bad condition.
It was sitting in a chickenbarn for a lot of years!
The formel owner put in a porsche 356 engine into the car.
At the time I visit him the car was still in germany waiting for restoration!!
But the pictures were a great help for me!!
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really amazing to work great. please do not stop uploading these classes work as they should. I would like to Know Him
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What an incredible story got the OT1600 in generally! There few information about it, there are only 5 or 6 cars around the world.unfortunately they are not in some museum but in private collections. I would like (and think that I'm not the only one...) too see one these dream cars, one day in my life...
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some old news about the ot 1600
http://autouniversum.wordpress.com/2009/03/25/unsung-precursor-fiat-abarth-ot-1600/
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Bravo Fred! I would like to visit you when you'll finish the car! :)
Here are some extract in high resolution from my "quattroruote speciale 1964"
the Abarth "listino" 1964
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Listino Abarth from "Quattroruote speciale 1965":
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And from the " Quattroruote speciale 1965" the same pic that you have post but in better resolution, I hope you like it.
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Bravo Fred! I would like to visit you when you'll finish the car! :)
Here are some extract in high resolution from my "quattroruote speciale 1964"
the Abarth "listino" 1964
Thank you for the compliment and you are welcome when the OT is finished!!
Where you from??
And thank you for the extra articles!!
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this forum is incredible surprises me, excellent work!! Happy Holidays best regards
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Dear Fred,I live in North east Itlay, near the Slovenija, too far for one visit, but everything is possible in this life!
Best Regards
Paolo
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Hello Paolo,
In 2014 is in France another World abarth meeting and I want to bring the OT1600 with me to this meeting, so there is a chance to see the OT in real life!!
Oh, and to everyone at the forum: A very good 2014!!!
Fred
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Hi Fred thanks for these articles that I had never seen.
I don't know if the 850 in figure was really red or a white model that was subsequently colored in red on a black and white photo. I think that was pic was from the Torino car show.
Happy New year! :)
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And more
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cleaned and painted
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Just more interior work. This is also from my 1st serie 850 streetcar.
Cleaned it and then painted it.
It's not a plastic one, but some sort of pressed cardboard.
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More interior will follow, but first I must find out the electrical system wth all the new gauges!!
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Better than the original! Ha Ha :)
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Better than the original! Ha Ha :)
Thank you very much, Toon!!
How is your OT doing?
Groet,
Fred
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I'm just great, trying to make based on this tutorial, I hope that is at least similar to yours, happy new year best regards
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Well Good luck with it and I hope that the pictures will tell the trick!
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Hello Fred, you really are a teacher for all of us.
This year, the Fiat 850 is 50 years old and also of course the legendary ot 1600.
The factory Abarth was in "corso marche 38" turin. I used google-earth street view, the factory still exists, only a small portion is occupied by abarth today. I do not understand why the Fiat killed a brand so important in the history of the automobile.
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That's absolutely wright. Thanks for reminding us about that!
In the Netherlands we've got also a nice 850 forum and I suggest there to organize a meeting especially for the 850.
You can watch this forum at www.via850.nl/forum at "projecten" you can see other 850's
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And the result until now!
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Seriously folks, is there anything he can't do?!?
Hey Fred, have ever thought about a new career? :-)
Really amazing work. Can't wait to see the car running. Those old track test articles you've posted make it sound like a great car to drive!
Cheers, Toby
Australia
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Thank you, Toby, for the compliment, but with simply thinking you can make a lot of parts yourself.
A new career?! No, I'm a science teacher and I've got a lot of free time to do this.
Now it's fun to do and when it will be my work you must do some stuff, because people are waiting for their parts.
Hopefully the car is ready for the Abarth meeting in june 2014
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Wow Fred,
Anyone can see I'm not the only one that wants you to make and sell these quality replica ot grills of yours, if you make them they will sell..... but me first?!!
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Thank you Rubin!!
You really want one?? I can make them, but the price will be way up, I think!!
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Yes, shock me Fred, I do need it!
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Did you get my email about the grill, Rubin?
I can make a grill for you.
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Did you get my email about the grill, Rubin?
I can make a grill for you.
Thanks Fred, I have sent a PM and would be happy to hear from you ,
Groet, Rubino
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Did you get my email about the grill, Rubin?
I can make a grill for you.
Thanks Fred, I have sent a PM and would be happy to hear from you ,
Groet, Rubino
Hello Rubin,
I've send you a PM in return!!
Regards,
Fred
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Groet Fred, yes Sir got email thank you, I have the Abarth badge and triangle grill(top left), can you make 2 or the main grill? ....and I do like the 850 forum but just getting used to Dutch translation. Good to see like on this forum , we (Ras and I) are not the only ones in the world, just local fiat/abarth nuts!
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I'm busy with the collingsystem and I'm waiting for some parts.
Meanwhile I'm not doing nothing!! Some history. Did anyone studied all the pictures that you can find of the OT1600 closely.
You can see something on this picture, that tells a lot!!
A tip: Look at the a-pilar of the car!!
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Again Fred,
It looks great!!
Thanks for sharing this.
Groeten Patrick
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Very nice again Fred!!
looking good!
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Ik kan mij alleen nog maar bij Cees aansluiten!!
Thanks for the pictures!!
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Simplemente increíble!!!!!!!!!
Gracias
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I've got a request. I'm looking for an article of the OT1600 in the Gold Portfolio Fiat 850.
If anyone will scan this article I would be very happy!!
Or maybe can someone give me the contents of this book, so I can find the original article!!
This is the cover of the book.
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Hi Fred,
Copy of article emailed to you.
Regards
Trevor
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Hello Trevor,
Thank you very much for the article I was surching for!!
Great to have this forum and kind people who will help you out!!
Groet,
Fred
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The pistons are great, but I have some little waterdamage in the cilinders.
After some work the cilinders are in better shape.
The bearings are looking great.
Tomorrow the crankshaft is goning out of the engine and I will clean the block with high pressure steam.
Than I'll brush the engine and paint it in an aluminium color.
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Today cleaned the engine and gave it the new aluminium color.
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And the color. Tomorrow cleaning up the crankshaft and the pistons.
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A aluminium bloc Fred !!!!!!
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Just with some paint, Guy!!!
Only the weight didn't change!!!!!!!
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And more
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You can make a whole car Fred! Nice Ha Ha. ;-)
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Thank you Toon. I try to make one!!!hahhahahaha.
And some news about the engine. Not great news, because after fitting in the crankshaft an de pistons the block was not straight.
The formel owner machined the block, but with a difference of 0,15mm between the 1st and the 4th cilinder.
So everything out and the block will be machined again in my friends workshop.
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Meanwhile I'm busy with the cilinderhead number 2. The original one was also machined, but also the valve were done!!??
And the intake was allready done and not fitting oké with my intake manifold.
I have another one and that one I'm going to use. Only one valve guide is broken, so I will replace al valve guides.
I also machined the cilinderhead because there are casting problems in the watercooling system. I cut them away so the water can go better into the cilinderhead.
After blasting(glass) the cilinderhead I just start with making the intake of the head fit well to the intake manifold I've got.
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Cut away some aluminium and make it smooth with some fine tools
Then the intake manifold and the intake together with the gasket and do it again, until I've got a nice complete intake without any "bumps" or whatever!!
I also took out the valve guide.
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The oilpump is ready and allready installed. Some modifications at the pick-up. Made the small opening a bit wider.
The plate were the gears are leaning on was a bit worn out, but with a diamond sanding block it all went well to make it smooth again.
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Made from the old original timing gears, ajustable timing gears.
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Herewith some live-action!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AuowrDzuBQ
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Also futher with the cilinderhead. After doing the seats with the B&D the seat must work after with some other tools.
All kinds of mills to make the 3 different angles in the intake seat. These angles are 30 degrees, 45 degrees and 70 degrees!
The valves are all fit in perfectly and the cilinderhead is also straight after a treatment on the millingmachine.
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By using other camshafts I needed to machine the camshafthousing so after this the new camshaft can attack the valves in full order!!!
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Hi Fred,
Did you ever consider the 16v head for more power? Original Abarth engines were quite powerful!
Thanks for the posts (and Maiden!)
Cheers,
Toby
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Hello Toby,
Yes, I've thought about it, but first I want build this engine and maybe in the near future a 16v cilinderhead.
Hopefully I will get around 150bhp out of this engine.
Next month there will be two new "maiden"!!
Groet,
Fred
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With the dry-build there are some other things that needed a good solution. The original mounting of the dynamo was to high so I needed another mounting bracket. These engines are being used in a lot of other Fiat models. The solution was the bracket of the Fiat 124 spider. Now the dynamo is much lower so I don't have a problem with the weber carbs.
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In the meantime also made the steeringwheel. When I visit Engelbert Moell in 2009 I saw some steeringwheels at his museum.
There was also a Nardi wheel that was used in an Abarth. So I bought a Nardi wheel and found a horn with Abarth emblem at Ebay.
But they didn't fit. I had to make an adapter that fit on the Nardi wheel and were the horn also fit in.
Some machining and it fit.
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Oh, and the tyres are here for the OT. Original Dunlop racings, 4.50 x 13 front and 5.25 x 13 rear.
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Did some small stuff at the OT. Still got this week a holiday, so I hope to do a lot of things.
The rearbumper is ready and yes a bit futher backwards than the original 850, because of the big bump in the backpanel.
This was original for the twin distributor at the back of the original OT1600.
And the backseat is in the car so I can sit if I want to!!! Also the passenger side has got his rubber floor mat.
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The engine is done!!
Now futher with connecting the gearbox to the Fiat engine!!!
More problems??!!
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It's time to fit the gearbox to the engine. I have a PBS adapter, but notice that the flywheel of the 105TC doesn't fit the adapter.
Reading some old fora and PBS adviced the flywheel of the 124 coupé with 1438cc engine.
I know that the flywheel or gear of a old type Lada will fit, but try to find them!!
I'm searching for a flywheel/gear with a diameter of 278mm.
Another fact is that I want to use the 105TC flywheel and will machine it for the new gear for the starter.
I want to keep the 105TC flywheel, because I can use the clutch of the Fiat with a diameter of 200mm.
I found out that I can use the clutch-plate of the VW Caddy. This plate will fit the porsche price-as and it is much cheaper than the porsche clutch!!!
A lot of things to think about!!
Meanwhile I shortened the strips that will come on the sills. The original ones are to long and I cut them and weld them together like it's original. Polised them and the're back on the car.
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The exhaust is ready too. Not the most beautiful work, but it will do!
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The interior is in and I'm very pleased. Another thing done of my list.
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Hey Fred looking great!
Are you going to put the extra cluster of gauges on the dash?
Cheers,
Toby
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I found the flywheel of a Fiat 124. This will fit hopefully without any problems!!
I can go on now and I must hurry, because I want to go to France!!
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Hi Fred,
For some reason I thought there was another set of gauges in the centre of the dash. Maybe I'm thinking of a different OT model. Those gauges you have look very nice. Did you buy them or make them from some old hubcaps and alarm clocks? ;-)
Will you drive the car to France or put it on a trailer?
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Hi Toby,
No, I didn't make the gauges;-).
I bought the gauges. They are nice replica's.
There are different dashes used in the abarth OT. I like this one, because the rev meter is in front of me. More important than speed!
I'm going to France with the OT on a trailer. It's more than 900km from my home and I think it won't run a that time.
Groet,
Fred
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Tonight I tried the flywheel and it won't fit.
I found out that the 124 had two different flywheel ring gears. One with 131 gears and the other with 129 gears.
I found one in Tjechië with 129 gears and hopefully it will be here in time!!
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Still got no flywheel gear at home and I have decided not to go to France!
I don't want to make any mistakes.
Also got some small other issues.
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alée fred
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've got the flywheel gears. So I can go on.
Had some big difficulties with the right door.
I think I used another door to fit in the front an back fender.
Stupid mistake!!
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Yesterday I put on the new flywheel gear on the my 124 flywheel.
I t was to tight to fit, so I took of a 0,5mm of the gears of the flywheel and now it's ready to go.
Get it balanced and then the engine and gearbox can go in!!
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Hi Fred,
I was looking for a new exhaust for my car and a came across this
http://www.abarth-exhausts.com/abarth-endmuffler-fiat-abarth-1600-ot1964/
I think its a replica but I thought you might be interested!
Cheers, Toby
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Hello Toby,
Thank you for the link, but as you can see at page 14 and 15 of my topic, I made my own exhaust.
Also in stainless steel and cheeper than the one on the link.
How are doing with your car?
Groet,
Fred
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Hi Fred,
Yes, I know you made the exhaust yourself. It looks beautiful! I just thought you may be interested to see another replica/recreation made. Yours looks nicer anyway ;)
My car is going like all Fiats, one day it's my best friend, for the next two weeks I don't like her. I fix something else that has broken, then I love her again!
I cracked my old exhaust manifold I got from Middle Barton Garage about twenty years ago, forgot to put one of the muffler brackets on and it split :-0
Now I'm thinking of having a new sexy tuned length set made, maybe stainless if I can afford. Also my old Koni adjustable shocks on the rear don't seem to be working very well, very bouncy! Do you have a recommendation for a good rear shock for the 850 chassis? AVO, SPAX, KONI, other?
Netherlands looking very strong in the world cup this time. Good luck!
Cheers,
Toby
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Hello Toby,
On my OT1000 racecar I use the AVO shocks and they are very good. They are adjustable from soft to really hard.
Also the price of the AVO's are allright.
I know the pictures allready of the OT1600 from Tony Casttle Miller, because he send me those before he took the car to a big show in England.
That's to bad about your muffler. You can't repair it?
My stainless muffler isn't that expensive, because I can make it myself and I can use some special tools.
Maybe I can make some stainless mufflers if people want them.
And about football I'm not a fan of it and don't watch it, but they are doing well.
Are you a football fan? England I supose??
Groet,
Fred
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Fer hello how are you so long.
here I'm starting to paint my project, which is much more modest than yours.
yours is running great, magnificent.
you take some time advances without hanging up, you're resting?
say you're a source of inspiration for many,
best regards from Barcelona.
pardon my English is that I am very bad with language
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fotos motor
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Hello diogenes850n,
That engine is looking good and I'm very curious about your car!
Some pictures maybe?
I'm glad to hear that my project is a inspiration for other people.
After I missed the deadline of the Abarth meeting in France I stopped for a while with my car, but I'm busy again with it.
So I will post some photo's and I will go on with the OT1600.
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I had some dificulties with the release bearing and the select fork. The gearbox is a 911 type gearbox, but the select fork was worn out a bit on the pivot point. So I thought I'm going to use the the select fork and the release bearing of the porsche 914.
I thougt they are the same, but the are not!!
Rebuild the 914 select fork or do the 914 release bearing?? Well I did the release bearing and know I can use the gearbox.
The engine and the gearbox are ready and are going into the car very soon.
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hallo Fred , I hope you make a copy from the connectionplate FIAT/ 911
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Hello Guy,
No, I didn't do that.
You must use an old type flywheel of the Fiat 124.
PBS made this at the time that those wheels were available, but now it is difficult to find them, I found out myself.
Regards,
Fred
P.S. how was the meeting last sunday??
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hello fred you step some photos of my project, you will find it much more humble than yours.
but you know that you're guilty of it is performed in part
since yours is being beautiful.
do not let uploading progress
greetings from Spain
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fotos
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mas fotos
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Hello Guy, Fred,
Hi Fred,
Good to see you back in the "groove", so to speak, after a very well earned rest. It exhausted me just to see the rate of your progress on your 1600 OT Berlina.
Hi Guy and Fred, Re Adapter plates Fiat Twincam motors to Porsche/VW transaxles mentioned recently:-
Miller's Mule Machine and Design at www.millersmule.com make and stock such an adapter plate. It appears to be alloy and similar to the one marketed years ago from the San Diego area, and appears to be evolved from mating DOHC Fiat engines to Porsche 914 transaxles which were numerous in the USA at one time.
Regards,
Trevor
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hallo ,I now this but probleme was sending this parts to me (VERY EXPENCIEF)I was speaking withthem . Mayby someone have a ideé? I wish to have one for my Periscope project
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mas fotos
You've got a very nice 850!!
It's looking great. I get also inspired by watching your photo's.
Good work!!!!!
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hallo ,I now this but probleme was sending this parts to me (VERY EXPENCIEF)I was speaking withthem . Mayby someone have a ideé? I wish to have one for my Periscope project
Hello Trevor,
How are you doing?
Yes, I'm back in the groove!!! The engine is ready and also the gearbox. They are going in very soon.
Yesterday I put in the driverside door. It took 5 minutes and it was ready. Hopefully al the other stuff eill go as quick as the door!!
You are also still busy with your friends OT? Any progress?
I will go on with the car and to drive it in 2015!!(I hope, hahhahahahahha)
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Hi fredabarth
I am another crazy enough to start the replica project.
Got some Fiat already and thought something out of the blue would be nice to have.
However I had no idea what scarce information there is.
And I am more than glad that I found your page.
I will try to go for Mostra replica and hopefully you will not mind some questions.
Most important one would be gearbox - you all mention Porsche 901 - I guess you mean part number for the shell
In this shell there were internals for a lot of different 911 models - would you mind which model internals do you suggest?
Where is the best source to get the adapter from?
Do you know if anyone has any doc, prints or photos of the rear suspension made out of pipes?
OT1600 has 5j and 7j wheels - do you know if Mostra goes for OT2000 Coupe set 7j and 8j?
Do you still have some made parts for sell?
You have mentioned dry sump option with the oil tank in the front - however I can see traditional oil sump in your engine?!
Any idea if it is possible to get abarth heads for 2.0 engine - what kind of timing was used there - it does not look like belt driven.
I have 850 body stripped and ready for whatever needed - just I am not yet sure what's needed :)
Sorry for so many questions for the introductory post - but I had them going all over my head.
All the best to everyone trying to bring back former fiat glory :)
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Hello Vstar,
No problem if want to ask more, just do.
One request from me, please make your own topic at this forum so I, and others, can follow your project.
Great that you also start an OT1600/2000 berlina/mostra project.
I use a 911-gearbox and that is the 901 type box. It is a standard type gearbox and I don't change it internal.
I will look for the number at the gearbox and maybe you can find out what type box it is.
The adapter I've got was made by PBS in the USA, but there is also a company that made them see www.millersmule.com
I've got no extra info about the Mostra rearsuspension. I've got all the articles about the OT1600.
There is one pic at the internet of the OT2000.
Abarth used a chain to make the camshafts turn. I'm using an engine from a Fiat ritmo 105TC.
Abarth heads like the one on th original car are very rare to find and will not fit a Fiat 2.0l engine.
I think that the mostra was using whider wheels than the 1600. So the 7 and 8j are sounds good.
I'm not using a dry sump at my car, but I want to make a replica as close as the originalone, so I made the drysump tank in
the front of the car.
Do I have some parts for sale?? I make a lot of the parts myself and I can reproduce them. I'm almost ready to make the first rearspoiler out of my mold. I will place some pictures soon!
Hopefully I've answered all your questions and again make a topic at this forum about your car.
Groet,
Fred
Futher you must make the car stiffer than the original 850. I can help you with that.
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In the past weeks I made up the mold for the rear spoiler. Because it will be made out of fiberglass I needed good weather with nice tempatures. You can do this in the wintertime, but you must use a heater and in my garage there is no heating system.
A small update from the rear spoiler. First I build a steel spoiler as the first mold.
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Then I made the steel mold ready for the fiberglass. I had to made the fiberglass mold in 5 pieces, or else never get the final product out of the mold.
The black stuff is the gelcoat, after that will come the fiberglass.
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After the both sides are done with glasfiber I can go on with the parts in the middle of the mold.
Also get the black gelcoat on it and after that again the glasfiber.
And so on until you've got 5 pieces, polish the glasfiber mold and than put on 5 to 8 layers of wax.
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incredible work of professionals, I want one, please sell me one is great.
You impress me every day more, Greetings Fred
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No problem! I can sell you one!
With this mold I can make a lot of those spoilers.
But still I'm not a professional!!
This weekend I'm going to make the first product!
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Well looks like a job done by a professional,
and box instruments you have made molds.
I'm really impressed great job !!!
regards
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The first spoiler is out of the mold. I had to make in two steps.(see photo's)
Now I have fit it on an original rear engine cover.
I cut the original cover to a minimum and then glew the spoiler to the cover.
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A quick pre-fit of the spoiler. Don't mind the original engine cover.
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Fred is running great, really an outstanding job.
be sure to send pictures.
regards
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Hi Fred. I have been watching bits of your project for a year or two but have just now read it all. You are doing an amazing job.
I finished building my OT 1600 replica in 2013, and ran it in Targa Tasmania in 2013 and 2014. Mine has a Renault 16 gearbox, 1600 Fiat 124 Sport engine with 40 IDFs, Alfa 33 rear hubs and axles. Very different from yours but still looks like the real thing. Maybe a bit wider!
Mine is yellow because that's the colour we paint our cars.
Good luck with the project. You will enjoy driving it. I do.
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Thanks Pblake for your compliments about the car I build.
I saw photo's of your car at the internet and it seems to me that you're really enjoy your car.
I know for sure that it will drive very fast!!!
I wish you a lot of fun also with your car!!
Groet,
Fred
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Hello Mr. Fred
I really like your work, work of, not master but, an artist! Great stuff! Like that grill!
You are science teacher, listen Iron Maiden and great in mechanical engineering! I wish that you are my dad :)
I see on your photos that you have interesting B&W posters of OT 1600. Where did you get it, can you share it, link or scan?
If isn't secret how much did you pay for those replica gauges? And what for are those 4 small ones; oil temp, water temp, fuel level and ???
I'm not mechanic, looking at exhaust you made, should there, in box, be some filters or so?
I think that your beige colour should be more darker (see pic below). Everything other, perfect.
There was mentioned some 5, 6 OT 1600 were made, no.
Long story short; 1964 in Abarth factory there was made 4 of them. After Torino Auto Show 1964 and big success at press with OT 1600 Mr. Abarth decide to make even more powerful OT. One of those 4 was strip out and 2000 engine added, white/red colour, inch wider rear wheels and Mostra was born. 1965 Fiat give red lights for both versions and everything were over. All 4 of them did buy one man and this is from his book 'Abarth Bible' - Mr. Cosentino.
OT 1600 today?
1. OT 1600 in perfect condition along with Mostra, in Japan:
(http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/attachments/other-italian-cars/255562d1345210145-one-best-abarths-ots-01.jpg)
From Japan collection; OT 2000 Coupe 'America', OT 2000 Berlina 'Mostra', OT 1600 Berlina, 1000 TC Radiale Berlina Corsa
2. In USA, in bad condition (was?):
(http://www.autosportgallery.com/tom's_toys_images/abarth/ot_1600/1600-3.jpg)
(http://www.autosportgallery.com/tom's_toys_images/abarth/ot_1600/1600-2.jpg)
More: http://www.autosportgallery.com/tom's_toys.html (http://www.autosportgallery.com/tom's_toys.html)
3. You mentioned in collection of Mr. Moell(?!?). I did look at Mr. Moell collection on YouTube, but didn't see it. Can you upload some pics of it, that can be "official"? Maybe he got the 2nd one, so 3rd would be gone, destroyed.
I found 6 replicas of OT 1600/2000 look-a-like on net, can upload them if interested.
Finally, why you didn't go for, how Mr. Abarth called it, 'OT Mostra'???
All best to you and your OT 1600. Hope you wouldn't crash it like you did more then 20 (!) Berlinas :)
Regards, marconi
P.S. I see that your OT is finish, but here are some prospects. They mentioned about wheels, alloys front 6x13 with 5" rubbers and rear 7x13 with 6" rubbers
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many thanks to share info . All must do this
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Hello Mr. Guy
Can you help me about one question. Abarth did fuel injected 1000 TCR. I found one in Mr. Moell collection, one more, maybe, in Japan collection. I got different info of its power; 115, 120, 123 and 127. Do you have any info on it?
Thank you,
marconi
Mr. Fred, sorry for OT
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Some years ago I sold one TCR injektion head(original) but dont think many were made . I had only head and fitting . Sold all
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Absolutely stunning work; the attention to detail is impressive to say the least. Fred, you have come a long way with the project from when I last saw it a few years ago!
@ Marconi; I believe Aumuellers black TCR has Kugelfischer injection as well.
Alex
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Absolutely stunning work; the attention to detail is impressive to say the least. Fred, you have come a long way with the project from when I last saw it a few years ago!
@ Marconi; I believe Aumuellers black TCR has Kugelfischer injection as well.
Alex
You "say" black TCR. That means that this is Mr. Aumuellers collection: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VBWmWETVVA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VBWmWETVVA) (great representation of all Fiat 600 Abarths). I thought that this is Mr. Moell collection, because this YouTube user has videos about Mr. Moell's collection too (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvJswLq2SVM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvJswLq2SVM)).
Mr. Aumueller has one OT 1000, Mostra look-a-like.
marconi
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good morning,
how are you Fred further progress you have to show us.
photos as the rear spoiler if you have already completed.
hang a few pictures to the delight of these eyes.
greetings from barcelona
Roger
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Hello Roger,
No not much news from me, but in a few weeks the engine will go into the car.
I sold allreadyone spoiler and you are still interested?
Did some other stuff with a 850 spider and also my streetcar an Fiat 850 from 1972.
How are you doing with your OT rebuild??
Groet,
Fred
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Mr. Fred, no answers to my post?
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Hello mr. Marconi,
I'm sorry for not answering your questions, maybe I was schocked by reading your wish I would be your father!!
I'm I that old??!!hahhahaha.
I'm not that busy with my OT1600 at the moment. I'm busy with my OT1000 berlina to get it back on the racetrack.
Well the OT1600 of mr. Moell wasn't there when I visit him in januari 2009. The car was in Germany to be restored. I don't know if it is finished, but I don't think so. The B&W photo's are original photo's I got from mr. Moell.
The color of the car on the B&W photos is RED!!
We agreed that I will get the pictures, but I only use them for myself and not put them on the internet or whatever media.
You mentioned the color is not right on my car(the photo of the japanese museum is taken inside with flashlight), but I've got color photo's and I'm very pleased with the color on my OT1600. It is the original color number used by Fiat.
On the photo of the OT1600 you can see how light the colr is.
The car of mr. Moell was found in a chickenbarn with a porsche engine and it was painted silver.
The replica gauges are from Tony Castle Miller. Abarth used 4 small gauges.
1. watertemp. in
2. watertemp out
3. oil temp
4. oil press
There is no gauges for the fuel. Just gues how there is in or everything ride start with feuling up th car.
What do you mean by the exhaust??
And I don't want to build the OT2000 mostra. It's to big and I like the OT1600 better.
If you've got the pictures of the other cars? Great.
I hope I answered all your questions and if there are more, please ask them and I will respond much quicker.
Kind regards,
Fred
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Hi Fred on occasion assured me that you could get a front grill
Might tell me how much it would cost me
I am interested in putting but really is very difficult to do it
I do not have the technical means or shield your knowledge I have
.te spend my mail barneauroger@hotmail.com
greetings and send more pictures of your project and will be rolling or not.
a hug
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hola ya casi termino el motor
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Best quality i have found
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Fred, how goes the racing with the OT1000? I got my wheels for the OT1600 from middle barton garage and they are really nice replicas. I building a Porsche 914 5 spd converting to 911 type shifter. I am really enjoying myself! Your pics are a inspiration, thanks and hope all is well. Chuck
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Hallo Fred
Como está tu proyecto ¿...
Saludos
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Yo casi termino
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Hello roger,
It is looking very nice! Is it ready for paint?
My OT1600 is standing still, but I will go on this winter. It must be ready in 2016!
Groet,
Fred
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Come on Fred!
The world awaits your mighty OT1600!
Yours will quite likely be the best recreation ever made. Hope you find some inspiration soon.
Cheers,
Toby
Sydney, Australia
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Hello Toby,
Thank you for your compliment about my car and I will go on very soon.
The engine and gearbox are ready to fit in!!
I will put some photo's at this forum when the engine is in.
Kind regards,
Fred
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Hello
I look forward als photos 1600
I could spend carburetor settings from your OT 1000
I have to carburar mine and do not know where to start.
cam engine took 903 70/30 with 280
from and through
your project is the best thing that ever made
Abarth would be happy to see him
°
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Question about exhaust is; you don't have any filter in, exhaust box is empty?
What kind of gearbox do you have for OT1600? From some other car? It's not from OT1000?
Can you please write wheels and tire dimensions? 4.5x13, 5.25x13 are wheels?
Thank you
marconi
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Hello Marconi,
The exhaust is filled with stainless wire wool. So not empty.
I use the gearbox from a porsche 911. Old type 901 gearbox.
The wheels are replica's from Tony Castle Miller and are 5,5j in the front and 7j in the back.
The tyers are Dunlop racing classic 4,50 CR65 13 in front and 5,25 CR65 in the back.
Ik hope I helped you with this info.
Are also building a OT1600?
Groet,
Fred
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Hello mr. Fred
Thank you for sharing all this info (http://www.oldschoolhr.com/forum/Smileys/Oldschool/hi.gif)
I'm especially interested in tire size, everybody putting low profile tires on 13" and that's not it. I know about middlebartongarage.com and Campagnola replicas.
Your project is by far the most detailed and accurate, you are building THE replica, most of other are wannabe replicas, just look-a-like (talking about OT Berlinas).
I was planing to build Mostra, but that project is now "off the table", waiting better days.
All best to you and to your OT 1600 Berlina project!
Regards,
marconi
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Hello mr. Marconi,
Thank you very much for the compliments about my OT1600. I'm doing my very best to build a good replica.
For me the Mostra is to "big". Hopefully the better days are coming soon for you and you'll build your own nice replica.
I also put some photo's in this message, so you can see the tyres and exhaust.
Kind regards,
Fred
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Hello mr. Fred
Can I bother you little more?
You did write earlier that you'll consider to put 16V head on OT. How that goes? You can put just head from Fiat 1.6 engines or just 1585 ccm or from any 16V engine like Tipo's Grandturismo (1.8 ) or Sedicivalvole (2.0)?
Thank you,
marconi
P.S. Here's two pics; first interesting and second maybe can be useful, from original OT 1600
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have this radiator ,fitting cooling engine and fan in stock (all Original)
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Hello mr. Marconi,
Thank you for the photo's, but I allready got them. I'm not going to use a 16v cilinderhead on my engine.
At first I want to fit in the engine that is already done.
I also got the front boot filled with the parts you need for the OT1600.
Groet,
Fred
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Excellent work!!. Congratulations Fred.
Although I have never participated in the forum, I follow your project. I unfortunately had to interrupt my 850 project :(
Glad to see you continue with it. Brilliant!!
(Your OT1000 is spectacular. It has more pictures and data???)
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Hi there
how are you as long as this project.
I'm finishing 1000 I have a bit of trouble with the carburetor settings Dellortto 40 DHLA.
but it works very well.
I hope you can Cogar photos of your project
Best regards
roger
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hola
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Roger, looking good! Nice work,makes me realize how far I have to go with mine. Chuck
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hello all the inspiration I owe Fred
his is amazing, mine is more modest.
Cheers
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HELLO Fred nears completion
I hope you like it
thanks in part to your inspiration
Cheers
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almost like the cars from Juancosa ?
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It would be an honor, it was one of the greats of motorsport.
thanks greetings
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hello
your car its finish or ma bi
best regards
please send photos for you best car.
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hi Fred
How are you doing for a long time.
How is your car
I hope you are well, and hear from you.
best regards
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Would it be possible to show Freds brake master cylinder mounting?It has been dropped from blog. Chuck