abarth squadra storica forum
abarth cars - community => fiat abarth 1300/124 coupe => Topic started by: guy moerenhout on November 07, 2005, 02:25:45 pm
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here the 4 special possibilitys
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Hello Guy,
Were some of these manifolds supplied as original equipment? Were any of the series 1 1300/124 cars supplied with dual sidedraught Weber carbs?
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Hi Evan,
I've been quietly following your restoration from down under and I think I can speak for most of the forum when I say I'm jealous! We had quite a few 850 coupes over here but it seems that the rust monster has eaten most of them so to find such a rare version like yours is really amazing. Kudos to you and the very thorough restoration you are doing.Now on to the point...I've read through my Faza "King of Small Cars", "Abarth-The Man the Machines" and "Abarth-Braden &Schmidt" books which all seem to indicate that only one side draught carbie was ever offered on the 1300/124/850 Abarth (twin choke Solex C32PHH).
Quote from Schimdt book;
"Other than fitting high compression pistons, Abarth made no performance modifications to the engine."
I guess there are lots of performance manifolds out the for the 124 engine,including the dual setup, maybe Abarth used them on the Scorpione SS ?? but I'm afraaid I don't know enough about them.
Cheers and Keep up the good work,
Toby.
Sydney,Australia.
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I now some group 2 cars that where driving in rally in that time and it was possible to drive with two carburators in group2.Cars where fitted with 2 Solex 32 and not with weber 40.The intake maniflods where made from the original one and welded up .
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Hello Eric,
I can only endorse Toby's appreciation not only of a delightful and thorough restoration, but also of the consideration and effort involved in allowing all of us to share the sense of achievement as each hurdle was overcome. Delightfully done.
On the subject of dual inlet manifolds, Al Consentino's Abarth Guide, when commenting on F-A 1300/124 coupe ser ii (pge 321) said "...factory driver, Ortner had the camshaft of his first series 1300/124 coupe replaced with a 30/70--70/30 degree camshaft. This influenced Carlo Abarth to offer a special camshaft and dual carburetors on optional engines in the S and SS versions".....
Regards Trevor
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but there is no paper work from abarth that proof this and I had +- 15 scorpiones/124/1300 and all 1 carb.Even I think that the 1300/124 had only group 4 our 5 homologation papers .In Belguim there where driving togheter in that time(not gr 2 sorry)
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Hello Guy, Toby and Trevor,
Thank you for all your responses! I have been posting lots of details and explanations as we go because I learn so much from your responses and because I have enjoyed reading similar restoration posts on this and other boards in the past. Makes it more fun for everybody that way.
The reason I ask if some 1300/124 cars came with dual carbs is that the second owner of this car recalls it that way, and has suggested that there was a 1300/124 "OTS" version. I have not found any support for this in the books, but that reference to Cosentino's sounds very interesting.
I'll be sticking with the 32 DCOF.
Eric Van Nice, San Diego
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When I bought my 1300/124 (2 years ago now), it came with a manifold mounted for a single DCOE Weber carb. Mahlon Craft, who I bought the car from, thought it was an aftermarket Faza manifold. I have not yet gotten to working on the car so can't verify what it is. I also have a manifold for 2 dual Webers. I don't yet have an original manifold for the Solex carb as originally fitted on these cars.
A few years back, I bought a performance cam from Richard Radford, formerly of "The Fiat Guys" in Washington. I've lost the spec's on it unfortunately. I suspect it is a reground cam. I just received a 1600cc OHV engine from New Zealand. I want to use this for regular street driving around here, and want to use dual carbs with it. I know this is not close to the original cars, but will be fun to drive with more power. The 1600cc motor will look indentical to the original "1300" motor. If I take the car to an important show (like the Concorso), I could swap on an original carb setup. I am still on the lookout for an air cleaner for the Solex carb. Someone in Australia was supposed to get back to me on one, but it's been many months since I've last heard.
I've never heard of an "S", "SS" or any other version. That's not to say Abarth didn't make one or two?
Gil Nicholls
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The Abarth Scorpione 1300SS did indeed have a special manifold fitted with dual Solex 32PHH or Weber 32DCOF carbs (note: not Weber DCOE's!).
I can't recall who made the manifold, perhaps Sprint or Nardi or ??? I do know it exists, as I held them in my own sweaty hands about 10-11 years ago (removed from an original Rich Motors Abarth Scorpione 1300SS that was undergoing a restoration at the time).
The use of dual Weber 32DCOF carbs on the 1300SS is noted on page 344 of the Luciano Greggio book "Abarth - the man, the machines", where it says:
"The performance of the Scorpione SS engine was further increased by the adoption of two Weber 32DCOF carburettors and the replacement of the chain-driven distribution with a cascade gear system". (direct-drive gears)
This is also noted on page 327 of the Al Cosentino book "Abarth Guide", where it states:
"The engine was the same 1300/124 pushrod as the normal Scorpione. The only difference was an Abarth special camshaft, dual Weber or Solex carburetors with special intake manifold and headers".
Further down on the same page Al Cosentino states: "FAZA imported the first Scorpione S/S cars to the United States". This is not true, as it was John Rich (dba: Rich Motors Fiat Abarth) who was first to import these cars to the USA.
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hallo Jeff,I have never seen a chain driven and the gears must be there to turn left ? Our???
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I always thought that the gears were made simply to reverse the rotation of the engine (to counter-clockwise, for the 850 transmission). I, too, have never seen a chain-driven 1300/124 engine in an 850-based car. ???
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correct
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Hi JS,
Thanks for the reference info. So the only dual carb setups would have been on the Scorpione SS, not on the 1300/124, right?
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I now sure 2x 1300/124 driving rally and slalom in belguim with them.
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What is right or what is less wright???
I'm sure that Carlo Abarth would deliver a dual carb setup when a customer asked for it on his brand new 1300/124!
Abarrh was constantly improving his cars, so it is hard to say wat was factory standard.
There are documents wich say what was most common, but Abarth build much car on customer wiches.
i think Guy is right, becouse it's a way of getting more horsepower from this engine and that is what ABARTH is all about..........
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I recently built a 1438cc OHV motor for a customer for use in a FA 1300/124. It also received larger intake valves (40mm) and some reconfiguration of the combustion chamber. Internally I used 4340 steel H-beam rod with ARP L19 bolts and 10.8:1 forged pistons. Camshaft was 300 degree advertised duration (254 @ 1.25mm lift) with a maximum valve lift of 12.4mm. I spent a lot of time on the crankshaft, reprofiling it and then having it shot-peened. I used a stock steel pan and added extensions to it, right and left, with a four trap-door arrangement around the pump pick up which was extended to within 10mm of the bottom of the pan. It holds 5.5 litres oil and has a full windage tray between the crankshaft and the oil. Power was 130+ HP at 7500 RPM, which was my recommended max RPM.
Customer also installed a close ratio gear kit, limited slip, a SS type independent front suspension and full coilover shocks on all four corners.
He was able to lower his lap times at various tracks, including VIR by over 10 seconds per lap.
While the 1438 engine is no heavier than the 1300 it does provide a very nice power curve and is almost double the power of the standard motor.
Regards,
Paul
www.scuderiatopolino.com