Author Topic: 1300/124  (Read 15765 times)

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Offline trevor

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Re: 1300/124
« Reply #15 on: November 12, 2005, 02:09:07 AM »
Hello Gil, I attach some comments on the subjects you raised on 7th November.   Regards   Trevor
« Last Edit: December 03, 2005, 11:13:29 AM by webchef »

Offline trevor

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Re: 1300/124
« Reply #16 on: November 12, 2005, 02:40:31 AM »
Hello Gil,  Some glitch on my last post left out the attached text and photo.    Regards    Trevor
« Last Edit: December 03, 2005, 11:05:55 AM by webchef »

Offline trevor

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Re: 1300/124
« Reply #17 on: November 12, 2005, 03:02:09 AM »
Another try at posting the text directly.    Trevor

Hi Gil,   

I’ll comment on your various questions re 1300/124/850 coupes detail in the order you raised them in your Nov 7th posts . My response time comes from having to dig up some items from my “archives”

1.   The “Abarth” alloy rocker (cam) cover on the 1995cc pushrod motor photo is an aftermarket replica of the original. They are available in that catalogue you were acquiring. They were made for 1197/1280cc 124A heads, and there a couple of minor items of adjustment needed. I have a sketch I can email you if required.

2.   The pbs or Abarth bellhousing copy machining is straight forward; mainly ensuring the front faces of the  bellhousing to engine bolt “knobs” are coplanar and that plane is at right angles (perfectly) to the axis of the crank and transmission imput shaft. I would take minimum off necessary to achieve this, but it is not too critical in fore/aft dimensioning, affecting only extent of imput shaft insertion in the pilot bearing at the rear end of the crank, the angular location of the throwout lever/bearing relative the pressure plate and the gearbox mounts clearances. The block rear face gives a good template for bolt locations relative to the crankshaft centreline, and the clearance of the bellhousing around the back of block water jacket plate needs only to be sufficient not to prevent the full contact of bellhousing bolt “knob”faces to back of block.

3.    I assume you have a 124 to 850 imput shaft as per the illustration to carry a 124 clutch lining and sleeve connect to tha 850 box (pbs make the shafts)


4.   I cannot tell whether your bellhousing is a copy of the pbs or the original Abarth pattern. I have used a VW beetle bosch starter in my pbs bellhousing as the new location of the VW starter on the motor side of my flywheel gives it the required rotation without rewinding, thus a simpler future maintenance item. If a strapped throwout face is on the pressure plate then these straps need reversing  to suit motor rotation. The earlier photo of my bellhousing/starter shows minor relieving of the bellhousing to accommodate the bosch starter.
   
5.   I have no information re mixing 1608cc cranks with 1438cc blocks, which would have some compression ratio issues to solve, depending whether suitable pistons were available or made. I took the simpler route of using the 131A1 1585cc and the 132AZ2C 1995cc pushrods for larger capacity. The 131AZ2C lower commercial vehicle compression ratio  needed raising to reach a useful 9.3 to 1 as per 131A motor

6.   As for downpipes the standard cast exhaust manifold onto replica 1300124 pipes muffler in the earlier photo has been replaced by an ANSA FA 3181 headers ( made originally for 131A1 1585cc pushrod motor heads, and there fit the 132A2 head sized as it is for 80mm bores common to both. I believe it will also fit the 1438cc head. I obtained several headers from Bayless April sale specials, which are still listed in that on line sale catalogue yesterday..

7.   The factory water pump in my 1995cc motor, which was a reverse rotation motor as standard, is identical (ie no alternative impellor blades) to those on the standard rotation 124 131 pushrods & twincam waterpumps.  Only difference was water pump pulley location and/or size. It was practice in the 80’s however to use a reverse bladed impellor

8.   I attach  photos of the rear of motor as requested. This motor with its standard opposite hand cam to provide reverse rotation of the motor uses its standard  (131A1 type ) belt drive to cam, hence the cogged bolt drive sprocket on the crankshaft nose, and no “timing chain cover”.This particular motor is for  every day usage, hence the installation of air-conditioning , with appropriate crank pulley. The oil filter housing, which carries a mount for airconditioning or other ancillariary, is a standard fiat item, from a regatta, if I recall.

9.   There are several options for stronger drive shafts. Original 1300/124 drive trains were in the 1300/124 coupes and the OT1300 Scorpione(Lombardi).  These were quoted as 75bhp @ 6000rpm except the SS version of the latter with 88bhp @ 6500rpm.  All appeared to have standard 860 trailing arms ,driveshafts, flex joints and stub axles. The SS had tubular rear arms and thus I assume CV jointed drive shafts.

10.   On my vehicle, I combined some components as follows:-   inner CV housings and CV carriers fitted to the 850 standard box casing ( these from abarth type 137 box practice, a special length splined driveshaft, and a U-joint (cardan or hardie-spicer joint are alternative names) attaching to the standard 850 flex joint and stub axle. The carrier and typical shaft/U joint are in attached photos- also in that catalogue you are acquiring. There is also attached a drawing I provided the axle fabricator for my specific setup.You will notice that the CV carriers on the side of the standard 850 box are of different thicknesses to offset the off-centreline location of the 850 box, thus permitting use of same length axles on both sides.I adopted the arrangement for my needs  as I was never able to find a double CV arrangement that fitted the standard 850 trailing arms and hubs/stub axles. I too had reservations re the silver soldered option that is available.

11.   If you expect severe loading that double CVs would be needed to carry, then one option is to combine those gearbox side CV carriers via a special length axle to a Fiat 128 based CV joint axle arrangement as per an illustration attached. This hub /stub axle setup is not uncommon- 1980’s practice.

12.   Gearbox and final drive options are a personal choice.   I believe that the available close 3rd and 4th ratios for Fiat 850 boxes of 1.476 and 1.16 to 1 are more suitable than the wider apart standard ratios (usually 1.41 and 0.96 to 1)  The power and torque of the larger motors is well suited to these closer ratios coupled with a “higher’ final drive such as the few new 3.9 to 1 ones currently available. If vehicle usage has freeway conditions then the original 4.875’s and even the simca 4.33’s would be too “revvy”  for my taste, chosen as they were to reflect 850 to 1000cc motor performance capabilities. A different issue though if the vehicle is to be used on track. Changing 1st and 2nd gear has not been a commonly available option for the “road use” syncromesh Fiat 850 boxes, and the ratios seem to have served 1300/124 and scorpione owners OK.

13.   I think I that addresses the issues raised , so good luck with the project,and if other matters arise please ask , and I will help if I can. .

Regards    Trevor

 
« Last Edit: December 03, 2005, 11:07:24 AM by webchef »

Offline trevor

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Re: 1300/124
« Reply #18 on: November 12, 2005, 03:08:36 AM »
More , and end of current response.   Regards   Trevor
« Last Edit: December 03, 2005, 11:00:53 AM by webchef »

Offline abarthje

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Re: 1300/124
« Reply #19 on: December 30, 2007, 03:46:53 PM »
hallo to all abarth-entausiasts on this forum.

Lets first introduce myself, i’m Patrick, living in holland and i own a Abarth 595 i’m  also rebuilding a 850 coupe 2e series with double headlights.
i learned a lot already abouth the car on this forum
a original 1300/124 is verry rare so i started with a standard 850.
i want to build it as original as posible.
On the 1e serie’s 850 the vin-number was on the left side of the enginebay, Abarth did not change that.
On the 2e serie’s 850 the vin-number was on the firewall behind the exhaust in the enginebay, Abarth had to change that because that part was cut away to make room for the bigger exhaust of the 1300cc engine, so Abarth had to relocate the vin-number.
i can't find any documentation or pictures where Abarth did put the vin-number.
So if anybody ownes a 2e serie’s 1300/124, i would be verry happy with the info or a picture.

 regards and thanks,   Patrick


Offline johan612

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Re: 1300/124
« Reply #20 on: December 30, 2007, 06:46:41 PM »
Hallo patric, neem maar even contakt met me op  ik heb wat imformatie, en eventueel spullen  newbielink:mailto:Johan.nies@home.nl [nonactive]

Offline jorgevallecilla

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Re: 1300/124 - How to identify a Fiat OT 1300/124 Coupe Abarth engine?
« Reply #21 on: September 29, 2014, 10:03:03 AM »
Hi everyone

I am big fan of Fiat old cars. I’m from Colombia but I’m currently living in Brazil. I own one 1966 Fiat 850 Coupe. I’m not very knowledgeable in Abarths and that’s why in joining this forum to find more information about Fiats OT 1300/124 coupe Abarth models. I recently met an old guy that claim to have one complete engine from an Abarth OT 1300/124 coupe. He told me he bought it and remove it himself from the actual car from guy that used to own this car. He showed me the engine and I only manage to take 1 picture.  I need some help from someone that knows how to identify this engine model. The engine block code I found is 124A . I also would like to find more pictures of the entire assembled engine so I use as a reference to identify it. Did this engines used to have Abarth branded parts like aluminum head covers, oil carter pan, intake manifold another branded parts like that.

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Offline guy moerenhout

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Re: 1300/124
« Reply #22 on: September 29, 2014, 11:25:56 AM »
hallo Jorge  ,a photo  say many . Also  from  gearbox  . So we  are waiting for  it
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Offline jorgevallecilla

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Re: 1300/124
« Reply #23 on: October 16, 2014, 04:09:34 AM »
As requested this are some of the pictures of the engine and the gear box.

Att: Jorge Vallecilla

Offline abarthje

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Re: 1300/124
« Reply #24 on: November 15, 2014, 07:08:28 PM »
Hello Jorge,

congratulation with this find!!!

Engine, gearbox and radiator look original to me.
AB 204 is the original engine code for this Abarth engine.

just inlet manifold, carburetor and air filter are not (stock) original.  there should be a horizontal double 32 mm Weber (DCOF) carburetor and a stock Fiat 124 sedan air filter.  but I will probably run better with this Weber 36DCD.
On the engine mount should be a battery tray (but that is cut off). 

best regards,

Patrick (Abarthje)

Offline jorgevallecilla

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Re: 1300/124
« Reply #25 on: November 16, 2014, 02:36:57 PM »
Hi dear Patrick (Abarthje)

Thanks for the good news you post about the pictures. You help me to confirm my suspicion about the engine we found. That this is an original Fiat Abarth 1300-124 OT COUPE engine. Now I only need to find the original Fiat 850 Abarth body to put it and I think I may have found it. I suspect this a body from a Fiat Abarth OTR 1000 Coupe. Could you also help me to confirm if this chassis serial number belongs to Abarth produced car. I also would like to find, if exists, a list of chassis serial numbers from all the Fiat 850 that we produce by Abarth. Is there any book or website that have that serial numbers list? Is the any club o association that may have that information and can certified the origin of a given Abarth engine or car.


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Offline guy moerenhout

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Re: 1300/124
« Reply #26 on: November 16, 2014, 03:02:57 PM »
sorry ,but there is no original list
Best is to find out story from car
All Fiat Abarth coupe 1000/850/1300-124 have the same body only some small changes  our reforments like on 1300/124
So iff you dont find a  car  with story use a good donorcar
Some persons like me have some points to see iff it possible a real one ,but I am not God and can do also mistakes. Its human
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Offline jorgevallecilla

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Re: 1300/124
« Reply #27 on: November 16, 2014, 04:20:57 PM »
Sorry I forgot to upload the picture from the chassis serial number. Here goes!!!!

Offline guy moerenhout

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Re: 1300/124
« Reply #28 on: November 16, 2014, 04:41:57 PM »
are all the same .
on 850 deriveds  most no abarth  plate  even
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