Author Topic: 1300/124  (Read 30777 times)

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Offline guy moerenhout

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1300/124
« on: October 26, 2005, 09:55:33 pm »
I had already 6 cars like this the mechanic is same like the scorpione .This was in serie  1 and 2 version.I sold them  japan,germany and japan.Most where gr " but many country allow  our place them with the  gr4  =double carburators and exhaust manifold  The are very nice car to drive .Do you have also one ,if yes send some photos thanks         PS  It was with this car that I start with Abarth -cars and I sold him to M.Pont in Savigny(musea)
« Last Edit: October 26, 2005, 10:04:45 pm by guy moerenhout »
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Offline zippyfiat

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Re: 1300/124
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2005, 05:38:48 am »
I am building a 1300/124 replica and would really love to see some photos of the cars.  As there were not many made, it is hard to find one to look at.  And, there is hardly any documentation around on these cars, at least compared to 600-based cars.  I would like to build my car as close to the original as possible.

Gil

Offline trevor

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Re: 1300/124
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2005, 07:40:11 am »
Hello GIL,.   Some good photos in the gallery section of Guys main website  Cheers  Trevor

Offline trevor

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Re: 1300/124
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2005, 07:44:09 am »
Hello Gil   Also some 1300/124 coupe photos in the same gallery under car of the month March 2003. Chgeers  Trevor

Offline zippyfiat

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Carburetor question
« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2005, 04:58:09 pm »
Does anyone know if I can fit a downdraft carburetor on the stock maniflold?  I am thinking of used a Weber DGV or DCD carb. instead of the original sidedraft 32mm carb.  If the downdraft carb. fits, is there much room left for an air cleaner?   I am using a 1438cc motor, and may use a 1608cc crankshaft..  Was there ever a sidedraft manifold for a single or dual 40mm carb?

Thanks,
Gil

Offline guy moerenhout

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Re: 1300/124
« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2005, 05:04:26 pm »
yes ,I have one fitted already and the where on  some 131 engines  I have one complete for 150 euro carburator and manifold but  I dont think it better The easy way is one Weber  40 DCOE on it
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Offline zippyfiat

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Re: 1300/124
« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2005, 09:43:56 pm »
Hi Guy.  Do you have a manifold for a single DCOE?  I have not seen one before.  What do I do for clearance to the fuel filler shroud with a sidedraft?  Didn't the Abarth cars have a modifed fiberglass one?  Can I simply modify the stock one?

Also, I was wondering if I used a downdraft carb., if I would have clearance to the underside of the engine lid?

Thanks,
Gil

Offline trevor

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Re: 1300/124
« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2005, 07:29:05 am »
Gil,   The attached photos from 1966 and 1969 may help. Cheers   Trevor

Offline guy moerenhout

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Re: 1300/124
« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2005, 12:22:37 pm »
modifed glasfiber/polyester an dI have them for sale I fit  and the did rally also with this in gr 4 in belguim  with two 32 carb and after with  two 40 dcoe carurators .
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Offline zippyfiat

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Re: 1300/124
« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2005, 06:47:00 pm »
Thanks for the photos Trevor!  Those are great shots.  I have not seen good closeup photos like the yet, and they really help.

Thanks for the info. Guy!

Gil

Offline trevor

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Re: 1300/124
« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2005, 12:15:42 pm »
Hello Gil,

Here are two more photos of engine bay of 1966 1300 124 coupe model.  One has a remote aircleaner located above the battery on the right side, avoiding conflict with fuel filler pipe, near the (single)carby.

As far as engines go, the following can be adapted to counterclockwise (left hand)rotation to suit the Standard Fiat 850 transaxle rotation, coupled via an Abarth bellhousing or a PBS bellhousing - be cautious, there are differences in which starter motors and clutch/flywheel diameters suit which bellhousing, and some opposite direction starters from the 60's are difficult to source :-
  a)  1297cc 124A pushrod using two cam drive gears as per abarth original to reverse rotate cam relative to crank, and/or  vice-versa                 b)  same 124A overbored to 75.5mm for 1280cc as per original, if a source of pistons is found               c) 1438cc 124B pushrod similarly  reverse rotated         d)  1585cc  131A pushrod which has a belt drive to cam, and  this needs machine work to front of cam and front of crank to mount the reverse rotation camshaft drive gears from the 124A or B conversion, as well as use of the cam chain cover from the 124A or 124B to enclose the cam drive gears rather than the open arrangement of the 131A drive belt   With this change the 131A is visually same as 124 A or B

I attach a sketch of the difference between the two types of camshafts 124A and 131A- the camlobe/tappet spacings and the cam journals/bearings sizes are identical in both types, but the relative location of the rear journal/bearing is 4mm different, showing they cannot be simply interchanged to obviate the machining of the noses of the 131A cam/cranks.

The standard 124A inlet /exhaust manifolds are mountable on the 124 B and the131A motor including the original 124A side draft carby or a larger one, or an Alquati pattern dual side draught manifold is also usable. An illustration of the latter is on this forum on Dave Robeys 1300OT Scorpione S , also shown in restorations section.

As mentioned elsewhere, close ratio 3rd and 4th gears are available for the standard Fiat 850 4 speed gearbox as is a small number of 9/35 ring and pinions (3.888 to 1)(without limited slip diff) for the same standard gearbox , both more suitable for the higher power motors. The original Abarth 1300 124 R and P was 3.9 to 1

Hope this helps

Cheers  Trevor

Offline trevor

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Re: 1300/124
« Reply #11 on: November 06, 2005, 01:06:53 pm »
Hello Gil, 

Two more photos
 a)   a 1995cc fiat pushrod reverse rotated for driving a Fiat 850 gearbox through a PBS bellhousing.    The Alquati pattern dual side draft inlet manifold, the standard 124A pattern cast exhaust manifold, and  repro 1300 124 exhaust pipes and muffler are seen.

b) a PBS bellhousing for that motor with minor machining to accommodate the bosch starter motor shown,and machining to clear the water jacket plate on the rear of the larger than original 1280cc pushrod.

Cheers    Trevor
« Last Edit: December 03, 2005, 10:28:09 am by webchef »

Offline zippyfiat

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Re: 1300/124
« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2005, 06:15:12 pm »
Wow Trevor!  The photos and information are excellent!!!  You have no idea how helpful that is.

Love the dual intake carb manifold.  Is that an oftermarket cam cover?

I have a brand new factory 1438cc  "crate" motor.  Here is a photo of it.  I have also included a photo of the PBS bellhousing I have.

I got the motor for next to nothing a couple of years ago, and could not refuse it.  I found it in the local classifieds.  Who wants a new motor for an old Fiat 124 around here?  (lol).  I got the PBS bellhousing from someone in New Zealand, but it is unmachined.  I think it may be a copy, as PBS told me that they never sold unmachined ones.

Can you tell me if there are any tricks to machining the bellhousing, other than what you describe?  I am not sure if the amount to machine off the "knobs" where where the block mounting bolts go is critical?  I do not have a stock 124 bellhousing to compare to.  I assume the rest is simply a matter of taking measurements off the 124 block?  The motor I got came with a new 124 starter.  I was going to have the coils rewound to accomodate the reverse rotation.  Is this a good plan?  What about a VW Bosch starter?

If I use a 1608cc crank (from a 124 twin cam), do you know what rods and pistons will work?  (My motor should have stock bores in it.)  I think I read once that rods from another motor work.  Someone told me once that Yugo rods and pistons work.  I think the only difficult part to this is that I'd have to have the rod journals resized (and heat treated).

I have a PBS set of reverse rotation gears that I was lucky to get on ebay.  I bought a 124 sedan downpipe that I am going to modify to work with a muflller like the one in your photo.  It looks like I will end up with something close to yours.  Can you please submit a rear photo of the engine?  In your opinion, is the stock water pump okay with opposite rotation?  I have a spare one I can modify if needed.

I also have original Abarth alloy cooling water pipes, header tank, engine sling and even front grille.  I have a radiator that came with a parts 850 coupe (supposedly from a Lotus) that I am planning on using.  I had a chance to buy an original radiator and fiberglass shroud, but declined in favour of the rad. I have.  I hope I am doing the right thing.  You won't see this from the exterior though.

Thanks very much for all your information Trevor!

Gil


Offline zippyfiat

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Axles for use in a 1300/124
« Reply #13 on: November 06, 2005, 06:24:21 pm »
Hi all.  This might be a question for Trevor?

I would like to install axles with CV joints in my 1300/124 project.  Does anyone know how to do this, or where to buy the setup? 

I have heard that you can adapt X1/9 or 128 CV joints, but can find no info. on this.  Is this easliy done?   Someone suggested to me that you just need to use the correct SKF bearings to adapt the X1/9 parts into the 850 hub carrier?  What happens on the inboard (transaxle end)?  There is one supplier in the U.S. that sells this conversion, but stock 850 axles are silver soldered into place.  To replace joint boots, you need to unsolder the axles.  Not sure it this is the way it needs to be, or if that is a great way to do it.

With the increased power and torque of a 124 motor, I think the stock 850 axles and flex joints are not going to last that long.

Thanks,
Gil


Offline zippyfiat

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1300/124 ring and pinion
« Reply #14 on: November 06, 2005, 06:32:27 pm »
Another question for Trevor!

I have a new ring and pinion set for a Simca 1000 - 4.33 ratio.  I am going to guess that I should really be using a 3.9 or lower ratio(numerically) for better results?  Are the standard 1st to 4th gear ratios going to work okay, or do I need to look at changing them too (if I could in fact, find other ratios)?

Thanks,
Gil

 

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