Author Topic: motors suited to the 850 sports coupe (Read 14802 times)

canabl · « **on:** April 20, 2010, 01:23:57 pm »

Hello all,
I recently purchased myself the 1970 850 sports coupe with a 903 cc motor, it is running and prob be good to use but i was looking to have a competive track car for age period racing class.
I am after a list of motors that would be interchangeable to the 850 coupe transmission if not something that could be swapped in.
I have got a 1973 132ab 1756 twin cam motor and a 124 1800 twin cam at my disposal. Would these be of any use as i see they would give a double in performance specs, i wish to build up a similar replica 1300-2000 OT style of vehicle.
Just not many people here in Australia that i can drop by and ask a million questions or buy parts from,
Thanks in advance for any support given.
Cheers
Adam

scooterjoel · « **Reply #1 on:** November 23, 2012, 11:09:24 am »

Hi Adam,

I have a coupe project too, but will try the 1050 route if I can find one.

I am in sydney, where abouts are you?
Cheers Joel

grant gauld · « **Reply #2 on:** November 26, 2012, 12:48:31 am »

Adam,
I had a 1300 Abarth version in Australia and I found the heavier motor to put the handling balance out.You will need to make many modifications to work out a nice handling package.A few guys on this forum have built such a car.There is also a yellow 2 litre twin cam coupe in Queensland and a white one in Victoria.

My 1 litre version is faster than the 1300 in a straight line,and around a bend.That said,I also did a lot of work to get it to that stage.You can see this car on Youtube under Fiat Abarth 1000 OTS Melbourne.

Joel,I have had many emails over the last year with a Joel in Sydney who is also building a 1 litre coupe.Maybe that is you ?
Grant Gauld.

Rubino · « **Reply #3 on:** December 18, 2012, 05:31:05 am »

Hello Gentleman,
Grant if I can ask you ,why or what was the issue with handling on the ot1300? understeer from better traction from the rear? or more weight hanging out the rear? I built a quick little 850sc with a SOHC Suzuki head on a 127 block and that was a fantastic handling car! but now building a replica ot 2000 mostra with the Fiat twincam would like to know, did you fix the handling? what did you do?
cheers !

guy moerenhout · « **Reply #4 on:** December 30, 2012, 10:16:24 am »

good morning ,can whe have some pictures from Suzuki head on 907 engine . Also with change have to be made

Rubino · « **Reply #5 on:** December 31, 2012, 01:53:04 am »

Good Morning Guy!
Sir with pleasure, I did this in 1983 so please forgive rusty memory! the head is from a Suzuki 4x4 early '80s called LJ80 with a F10a engine, rotated 180deg to fit fiat 127 903 block and spin anticlockwise for the 850 gearbox, head bolt arrangment was very close with only the outer 2 on each side needing 1.4mm movement inwards to match the block, using the suzuki headbolts as they are larger and tapping the block,water galleries are close but a full face weld to the head and a redrill to suit the fiat that was fixed, oil feed had to go exturnal and was fed thru the back of the camshaft, timming was easy as I already had a "Trigger" cambelt conversion that now was just the oil pump drive aux' and a 128 cam wheel machined to suit the cosworth grind Suzuki camshaft with 128 tensioner, custom alloy manifold tig welded to suit the twin Weber DCOE40's with 30 chokes, I bought mandral bents to fabricate the exhaust system and hand made the strait thru stainless muffler. Power was 114Bhp at just over 8700 but think there was still a more with tuning!
Hope this answers but more if wanted, Regards Rubino

edit- photo's are from when it was modified in the '80s,car has come back to me recently in worn-out condition tobe restored this 2013!

Guy, Can I ask you, why on the "OT" replica is a Porsche 901 box better than a vw box? does it have a cable speedo drive?

rraspa · « **Reply #6 on:** December 31, 2012, 03:47:43 am »

I love the interest in which engines to insert into a Fiat 850.

Rubin's 850 was a great car in it's hey day.
I look forward to the restoration of this great beauty.

I have started building an OT 2000 Coupe America replica with the help of Rubin (Rubino).
It took a while to find the various bits.
Happy to share my story and info with other enthusiasts.

Ras

guy moerenhout · « **Reply #7 on:** December 31, 2012, 09:02:37 am »

hallo ,the old 901 box have the first gear ,left and down . Also it have the gearchange on end of gearbox ; The cardanconnection are 10 cm ,so the small one . there is also a cable connection on but you need adjustment for instrument
A 901 gearbox is still to find on a good price and a VW 5 speed its a bit bigger ,I think no ?

Rubino · « **Reply #8 on:** January 04, 2013, 01:27:28 am »

Thank you for the reply Guy, I only have a type3 4speed box, I have looked over here in Australia for a 901 but all around the $1200 to $2000 very hard to come by a good one, not like in Europe. I will put that on hold for the short term while working on the rest of the car, just chasing a grill at the moment, if you still have it, could I have a picture of the Simca abarth grill for sale ? pricing ?
Regards Rubino

guy moerenhout · « **Reply #9 on:** January 04, 2013, 09:56:20 am »

If you can make a adaption plate for the Fiat 850 gearbox you can always turn this one on his head.
When you do this is turning in the good way

Rubino · « **Reply #10 on:** January 04, 2013, 10:31:20 am »

is it your experiance that the standard 850 sport gearbox will take the power of a 2lt Fiat Engine?
I'm guessing you don't like vw gearboxes?
Regards Rubin

guy moerenhout · « **Reply #11 on:** January 04, 2013, 10:37:04 am »

All abarth simca gearbox where 850 case even with the 204 Hp 2000 cc
In the America coupe was also a 850 derivat
Simca 1000 gearbox = same (very small difference on rear) like 850 gearbox
Abarth use on some of his formula cars a 850 gearbox and turn this.
I have many gearboxs from 850 because the dont crash

Rubino · « **Reply #12 on:** January 05, 2013, 12:42:46 am »

Wow! I did not know the mighty little 850 gearbox was so tough! I will look into reverse rotation of the Fiat engine now.
thanks Guy .
Regards Rubino

slim4936 · « **Reply #13 on:** January 06, 2013, 11:07:14 am »

Hey great info from Rubino,
I had heard a rumour about this Suzuki/fiat engine about 10years ago in Sydney. The rumour was that it fitted "straight on". Obviously a fair bit more work than that! What sort of RPM was the engine capable of?
Hey, with the exception of Guy, did you realize the rest of us were aussie?
Small world! Let's take some pics of our projects and we might learn something new.

Cheers,
Toby

guy moerenhout · « **Reply #14 on:** January 06, 2013, 12:43:21 pm »

I keep this forum live because I wish to give our knowlege to our children our persons that come after us
Some keep all for them and take it there grave

Rubino · « **Reply #15 on:** January 07, 2013, 01:17:32 am »

Hi Toby(slim4936),
The "Faizuki" motor was able to spin to 9000 with standard crank,rods and pistons. If I had what is available today with special cranks ,cam grinds,etc I beleive 10,000RPM and 130BHP+ from the mighty 903cc 127 block, stroke it to 1050cc and we are on our way to 150BHP??!!
Infomation today is fantastic, Guy with this forum brings together any and all interested people to share there knowlage and carry it forward for future generations(thank you Guy!!!) I lost interest in Fiats/Italian cars due to lack of infomation and enthusiasts in Australia in the early '90s but got it back when my eldist son (Benny) asked to be involved in the restoration of the Fiazuki and join the car club again, putting the infomation about the SOHC Fiat has got interest from all types of people from all over, this is a shock to me after all these years but a joy , I will start restoring this year and post pictures ,hope it is enjoyed by more than just my son!
Cheers, Rubin (Rubino)

slim4936 · « **Reply #16 on:** January 07, 2013, 03:45:13 am »

Hi Rubin & all,

Some pics of my ride..... yes it's a 600 or rather it was. The car is more 850 than 600, that's why I post into these OT threads. My car is a '61 600D with crossmember/coilover front end and 850 rear floor pan/gearbox. The complete floor pan means all of the 850 rear parts, axles, shocks, sway bars etc,etc. For those with keen eyes you'll also see a 124 sport dash/intruments (not in the Abarth/Jaeger style but works just as well and cheap!)

These ideas for these mods were taken from some clever guys in the local Fiat car club. They would compete in motokhana events so cheap but effective mods were the order of the day.

The body/chassis stuff was finished about ten years ago and the car has seen little use since then (married, two little kids, renovated the house, blah, blah) but last year work was finished on a new engine. I couldn't afford the A112 swap ( or so I thought! ) so the engine is 127 block with 66mm bores, balanced A112 74mm crank, fully floating pistons on H-beam rods with ARP bolts. The head has been mildly ported and uses the John Edwards JO/EL intake manifold with a DCD carby. Larger valves were also installed with a re ground mild profile camshaft.

Still running the engine in and sorting out a few little bugs bugs but the new engine is strong! More torque than it ever had ( I was running a standard 903cc before). Don't have to change back to 3rd gear to go up hills anymore, but she really takes off at 5500rpm and will happily pull 8000! In the end I spent a few more $$ than I thought but I believe this engine is superior in quality of components than a stock A112.

Look forward to seeing some pics of these other 850/OT projects also.

Cheers, Toby
Sydney Australia

Rubino · « **Reply #17 on:** January 08, 2013, 10:03:43 am »

WOW Toby nice 600!
I've never seen a Red one ,suits the shape, love the choice of wheels but not a fan of the 124 sport gauges, personal choice I know but I like the abarth style set you can still buy aftermarket and cheap today. I got a fibreglass copy shroud on ebay out of Asia for the Replica OT, then used a set of 124 spyder gauges as jager are not available under $2000!! but in the same look. same as not being able to find a real Abarth steering wheel but a Momo used instead. well we all have to do what we have to do!
You are lucky the 600 engine is spun the same as normal engines not backwards like the 850! are you using a 127 block or still the 600? I did use the 127 but had to spin anti-clockwise for the SOHC conversion !
Cheers, Rubino

fredabarth · « **Reply #18 on:** January 09, 2013, 02:56:33 pm »

To make a twin cam engine anticlockwise will take a lot of machining, Rubin!!
To turn the 850 gearbox upsidedown is a option. abarth did it on the abarth 1000 cuneo.
You will make a complete different bellhousing.
The 850 gearboxes are very strong, there are build by the porsche principe!!

Rubino · « **Reply #19 on:** January 10, 2013, 01:53:42 am »

Ok ,I did that type of work once before (Sohc 903cc),never again! flip the box upside down - love it! Porsche type I'm not suprised there is not more mechanical ideas same between Abarth and Porsche, when Carlo and Ferdinan were such good friends!