Author Topic: INFO WANTED: Abarth 750 Berlina  (Read 18461 times)

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Offline viotti600

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Re: INFO WANTED: Abarth 750 Berlina
« Reply #30 on: October 14, 2009, 03:32:11 PM »
This just goes to show how many different games can be played in the car hobby. Some guys love the game of making a car as close as possible to how it left the factory. They devote tons of hours to research and so on to make an automotive time capsule.  Others are into polishing their cars from top to bottom and showing them. Others race and others make street cars. Still others do custom creations of some sort or another. Jeff, it is obvious you are into the first one mentioned. I am not.

 Actually, I'm into all of those except #2 - I'm just too damn lazy for THAT! ;) I'm "devoted" to the 750 Berlina because that is the car I own & am in the process of bringing back to life. I am trying to de-bastardize the car of all of its' previous owners' indulgences, in order to bring the car back to its original true/pure Abarth form. While trying to gather missing pieces for the car, I could find very little info about this particular model, as most "750" enthusiasts are primarily involved with the alloy-bodied (Allemano/Zagato/etc. coachbuilt) cars, rather than the "lowly" 750 Sedan (I've been in that club myself, having previously owned a 750 Zagato & a 750 Allemano). Thus began my personal self-schooling on the Berlina, & through countless hours (months) of research I've learned a bit about the cars, which I'm happy to share with other 750 owners/enthusiasts.

 The apparent Quixotic fight against disinformation (wrong facts) on these cars has become a sort of adopted trait of mine. I meant no disrespect to you or your car, only offering information & my objective opinion on your car since that is what you asked for in the first place. I LIKE the PBS twin-cam head, & for a while have been considering installing one on my 750 or maybe on one of my Fiat 850's (a friend has one that I *might* be able to pry out of his hands?).

I personally would not buy a stock Abarth 750.  For me it is too slow and too unusable however neat and historic they may be but I would definitely admire one when I saw it.

 Yes, the 750 Berlina's are extremely simple/primitive & slow, but if prepped properly can be quite spirited & enjoyable to drive. That is their nature; "getting a quart out of a pint pot" is the essence of a 750, it is what they are known for & capable of doing quite well if asked. Enjoyable simplicity.

In my mind a Shelby mustang is still a Shelby even when it is modifed to go faster. So what if the engine is now 350 cubes and it has flares, cool, its faster and still a Shelby.

 But what if it's just a 289 Mustang with Cobra emblems, GT500 decals & California side scoops? (zing!) LOL

My car is a highly modified Abarth 750.  It is not a clone as it is an Abarth.

 I misunderstood your first post - I thought you were trying to determine if your car was a 750 or not (?).

  Does it still have the original engine, nope, it blew up many years ago.  What is does have is a very period correct PBS Twincam conversion that is likely worth more that the car and its connected to the original Abarth transaxle.  And if I choose to put on rear flares it still isn't a 1970 1000 Corsa replica.  It is an Abarth 750 with flares.

What I was (unsuccessfully) trying to point out was that, even if your car is/was an Abarth 750 originally, with the addition of all of this later 850/1000TC type gear, you're basically "transforming" the car from a 750 into an 850/1000TC replica, but then the 750 emblems conflict with what those additions represent. Rather confusing. Sorta like seeing a green STOP sign on the road. LOL ;)

My Abarth 750 with the turbo PBS twincam is very fast. So fast I will have to do many more upgrades to the suspension so I don't end up killing myself in it. I raced a 1000 Corsa clone back in the late 80's and early 90's so I know what needs to be done. But stronger stub axles and heavy springs with bigger swaybars don't stop it from being an Abarth 750.

 If you've removed/replaced nearly all of what made the car an Abarth 750 to begin with, then don't you basically just have a Fiat 600 with Abarth emblems & transaxle (ring & pinion)? (more of a philosophical question, like the "chicken & the egg" question)

As Guy said, Abarth never raced the car in the same configuration twice. He continued to upgrade them as can be seen in the evolution from 600 - 750 - 850 - 1000 and from street to race version.  I feel I am just continuing that legacy.

 Ah, but Abarth did race the 750 Berlinas in the same configuration twice - over & over again! The 750cc class homologation rules dictated it, & Abarth won hundreds of victories doing it. Plus, I'm pretty sure your car was not raced by Abarth, it was a street 750 Berlina with the same specs as many other 750 Berlinas sold across the world. The evolution of the 750 engine occurred mainly in the alloy-bodied cars, not the 600-bodied 750 Berlina. The 600D-bodied 850/1000TC cars are an entirely different story.

However, I do not want it to lose some of the 750 charm.  Because of that I will put the fiat script back on and may put the hood trim back on.

 "750 charm"??? What charm? You've already eliminated/replaced nearly everything about the car that represents a 750. Do you really think a few emblems are going to fool, errr...convince people? (Actually, it will, because people are stupid like that). Moot point - your car, not mine. ;)

I don't think I will put on the taller tripod decklid support.

Good, because we wouldn't want to confuse people (joking). The tripods were later 850TC items, not 750. 

The reason I got onto this topic was so that I could make sure and keep the 750 flare as original as I can within the constraints of my intended use.

 Seeing what you have & understanding what you want to do with &/or get from the car, I honestly don't see that happening. You have a 750 that's trying desperately to be an 850TC, but not quite. Even if you put the other items back on as you said, it still rings out as conflicted (for lack of a better word).

Like the tail lights will be returned to original. The previous owner liked the euro look, I don't. I have the housings but the lenses are missing.

 They did make Euro bicolor lenses in the earlier style, if that's what you're after. They're found listed on eBay every now & then.

Unfortunately, the previous owner sold the pieces he took off the car so I have to find them again.

Hey, I know what that feels like! (my car). :(

I am always interested in sharing information regarding these great cars and may we all have fun with whatever our car game happens to be.

Agreed. ;)
Jeff Stich
Norco, CA, USA

Offline Alfons1972

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Re: INFO WANTED: Abarth 750 Berlina
« Reply #31 on: July 02, 2013, 09:33:19 AM »
I want to revitalize this topic because for a few month now I own a Fiat 600 Jagst (Fiat 600 build in Heilbronn, Germany) with sun roof. Build in 1960 with 633ccm-engine. See pictures below. That car wasn't on road for more than 45 years ;-)

As I did in my fiat 500 I want to upgrade the engine to a "Fiat600derivazioneABARTH750" as you could do it in the '60s with the "cassetta trasformazione Abarth per la Fiat 600".
I'm not willing to build a clone car. I just want to upgrade the enging as Abarth did.

for that purpose I am looking for any information about that transformation. As jeff stated it truely is not easy to find good information about the Abarth 750. About 850TC you find nearly any information but the 750 is not as present in the internet and elsewhere.

now I found "Mahlon's Abarth Home Pages" that gives a little info, read the "Fiat600transformationAbarth750" brochure and "Tuning and Modifying the Fiat 600 Engine" by John Rich (bought on ebay).
Some things I know. But many I don't.

here I found an italian wiki about cassetta trasformazione [nofollow]

I hope I'll find someone who can help me whith my questions that will arise while building the engine (will last for years, I think)

For example:
  • What are the diameters of inlet and outlet valves? I did not read anything about the diameter, I only read about lighter valves...
  • what modifications were made on the cylinder head?
  • I have a Weber 32 IMPE carb. is that the correct type or can it be used at least?
  • what is the difference on the radiator of the 750 comparised with the standard Fiat 600 radiator?
  • is it correct that Abarth used stronger head bolds?
  • what kind of exhaust was used?
  • what was the difference/modification on the oil pump?

I am thinking about buying oversize high compression pistons (have to see what I get: 60,8mm or so), boring the block to the necessary width and using a Fiat 850 crankshaft with 63,5mm lift (if I do not find a affordable original Abarth crankshaft with 64,0mm) using 600D con-rods. With that the engine will have 737ccm. Quite near at Abarth...  What do you think about that?

...and many questions will follow, I think ;-)
I will be happy about every answer and every hint... :-)
« Last Edit: July 02, 2013, 11:07:10 AM by Alfons1972 »
I'm looking for original Abarth parts for my Fiat 500 and Fiat 600 (want to build a derivazione 750).

please email me, if you want to sale... Thank you!

Offline derivabarth747

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Re: INFO WANTED: Abarth 750 Berlina
« Reply #32 on: January 17, 2017, 04:12:11 PM »
I have '56 derivazione ABARTH750 berlina Sr.1.
This is kept an original condition.
If you still want to get its detail information, I can provide it.
Thank you.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2017, 04:22:52 PM by derivabarth747 »

Offline guy moerenhout

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Re: INFO WANTED: Abarth 750 Berlina
« Reply #33 on: January 17, 2017, 05:13:12 PM »
very nice
______abarth  gmr-team ______
___ ___

Offline Alfons1972

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Re: INFO WANTED: Abarth 750 Berlina
« Reply #34 on: January 22, 2017, 09:44:48 AM »
yes, indeed: a very nice car.
I already have seen pictures of this car somewhere in the internet...

I am still looking for parts for my derivazione-project. But I am not in hurry.

I already have found some original engine parts (collettore aspirazione, mechanical rev-counter drive) and some parts of 850tc that are fitting (e.g. oil pan).
I did not find an original

I'm still not sure what pistons I want to install. I'm still did not find good pistons with about 61mm in diameter. As crankshaft I want to use a 63,5mm-Fiat-crank.
Im still not sure what valves I should use. What valves fit in an early 633ccm-cylinderhead?

the carburettor will be a Solex 32 PBIC for first use. Later probably I will use a Weber 32 IMPE
I'm looking for original Abarth parts for my Fiat 500 and Fiat 600 (want to build a derivazione 750).

please email me, if you want to sale... Thank you!