Author Topic: INFO WANTED: Abarth 750 Berlina  (Read 18586 times)

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Offline naegeli

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Re: INFO WANTED: Abarth 750 Berlina
« Reply #15 on: March 15, 2009, 10:36:48 PM »
thanks for the info...again.
post related:  i entered 850 TC as search and this post was  at 28 %..close enough for me, i didn't want to start a new topic just for one stupid question and thought that maybe someone else is looking at the forum the same way i do: checking new posts; seams that i was right .
thanks again.  btw: the bialbero (with 1050 engine)  can be seen on my homepage under racing.....akita-racing.com

Offline viotti600

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Re: INFO WANTED: Abarth 750 Berlina
« Reply #16 on: March 15, 2009, 10:59:57 PM »
post related:  i entered 850 TC as search and this post was  at 28 %..close enough for me, i didn't want to start a new topic just for one stupid question and thought that maybe someone else is looking at the forum the same way i do: checking new posts; seams that i was right.

  Actually,I was not checking for new posts. When I created the original topic/thread/post, I clicked the "automatic email notification" setting to be notified when any new replies were posted to this particular thread, because I was seeking information on this specific topic (that's why I created my own thread in the first place). I came here today solely because I was notified via email that there were new responses to my inquiry (thread) about the Abarth 750 Berlina. Obviously, your post is not related to this subject.

  Common courtesy on most forums is to start your own thread if it's a different topic, no matter if it's one simple question or a full-blown inquisition. (often the Forum Moderator will move unrelated posts to a different/more suitable location, just to keep the forum in order & each topic flowing smoothly)

Jeff Stich
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Offline naegeli

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Re: INFO WANTED: Abarth 750 Berlina
« Reply #17 on: March 16, 2009, 08:46:47 PM »
okay, noted.

Offline Derek

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Re: INFO WANTED: Abarth 750 Berlina
« Reply #18 on: September 23, 2009, 05:29:02 AM »
I own what is believed to be a real 1960 Abarth 750.   It no longer has the original engine but the emblems are correct as are the internals in the transaxle.  It has been very well cared for it's entire life and is rust free.   It has upgrades including a later Abarth dash and as it's fourth engine, a 1050 PBS Twincam.  Over the years some of the trim was removed and a front radiator was installed.   Now I have to find out what should be on the car and balance the original with the modified stuff I want to keep.  So any information you find I would also like to know. I will also be happy to share anything I find.

Offline guy moerenhout

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Re: INFO WANTED: Abarth 750 Berlina
« Reply #19 on: September 25, 2009, 10:49:50 PM »
best it that you send our pkace here the photos from you car than all(whe) can say something about you car.Inside and engine compatement
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Offline Derek

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Re: INFO WANTED: Abarth 750 Berlina
« Reply #20 on: October 04, 2009, 05:00:28 AM »
Ok, I went out and took some pictures with my cell phone.  This is my car.  It is a totally rust free example.  The red is not the original color.  Some things have been upgraded.  I have traced the ownership back nearly 40 years.  The previous owner has had it for over 30 years.  The twincam was Paul at PBS's last new head.  He personally built the motor for the last owner many years ago but was run for the first time other than on the dyno, about 2 weeks ago in my garage.  The car originally came with a 750 but was changed to an 850 when the 750 blew up.  The next motor it had was a pbs built single cam after the 850.  The past owner didn't think that was fast enough at right at 100 hp.  I have seen the dyno sheet for that motor.  So the past owner had this motor built around 10 years ago.  It was never mated to the chassis until about a year ago when I flew to Califorina and helped the owner put it is so it could be shipped to me.  I bought it with the motor out.

It is a 1050 overboard with flattop pistons.  It has the PBS twincam as you can see with a turbo.  The previous owner was not 100% sure the car was original even when the owner before him swore it was.  Paul at PBS told him to bring him the transaxle as fakes almost never have the right stuff in the transaxle.  Paul took it apart and said it was Abarth.

The previous owner put on the front radiator and had the flares done at a Ferrari dealer nearly 30 years ago.  He also took off the other trim that you now see missing.

Anyway, as you can see many upgrades over the years have been done.  The Tach was switched for a 10,000 RPM Tach when he put in the single cam engine.  It has a double bubble steering coloum so he could lower the steering wheel.  If you will notice the dash and switch placement.  I have checked closly and there is no hole to the left of the ignition switch which is kind of weird.  The previous owner swears the dash is original.  I didn't believe it.  Greg Schmidt once told me that he has heard of late 750s that came with the 850 dash.  But I have do data past that.

I can't wait to get it ready to drive.  If anyone has any additional data on 750s I would like to hear about it. 



Offline guy moerenhout

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Re: INFO WANTED: Abarth 750 Berlina
« Reply #21 on: October 05, 2009, 10:12:22 AM »
I wish to have this to in my stable
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Offline viotti600

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Re: INFO WANTED: Abarth 750 Berlina
« Reply #22 on: October 07, 2009, 08:46:06 AM »
Ok, I went out and took some pictures with my cell phone.  This is my car.

A few things I can note solely from your photos:

  You said your car is a 1960 750, yet I see you have 600D taillights. Does your car also have vent-windows (1/4-glass) in the doors? If so you likely have a 600D-based car, which would indicate this is (was) probably not a 750 (750 Berlinas were normally 600-based, 850TC's were 600D-based). If you don't have vent-windows, then the original 600-style taillights were likely replaced earlier.

 The 850TC radiator assembly & gauge unit are obviously not original for a 750, so I'm ignoring those. Ditto on the PBS engine/head assembly & the Campagnolo wheels.
 
 The front fender & dash emblems look to be original for the later-model 750 Berlina, but the rear decklid emblem is the earlier style. The Abarth shield on the front grille is the wrong style of scorpion for a 750 Berlina (yours is late '60's/'70's type).

  I can't see the rear decklid props clearly enough to see if they are original type or reproduction items.

  The steering wheel is late '60's/early '70s-on, usually Fiat 124, Fiat 850 & Abarth A112. The u-jointed steering column looks to be out of a Fiat 850, not 750GT; the steering knuckle/joint is visible thru the square hole to the right of the fuel tank.

 As for the dash - it looks to me that the switch hole normally found to the left of the ignition switch was part of the dash sheetmetal that has been cut away to install the 850TC-style gauge unit. The hole (toggle switch) seen immediately to the right of your ignition switch is not original - it's most likely the left-hand switch relocated in a new spot. The switch on the far right is in the normal location. If you measure the gap between the ignition switch & the far right toggle switch, then flip it over to the left, that should give you the distance where the toggle should normally be on the left side (about on the edge of your gauge assembly). Your dash is also missing the padded upholstery piece that runs the width of the lower 1/3 edge of the dash (that what those little slot-holes are for, they're the mounting holes).

  If your car was a true 750 Berlina, I'd say it is all but lost due to the previous owner's "upgrades" through the years. Sad to say, but you now have another 850TC clone like many others out there. Nice stuff on the car, but unfortunately not the "correct" assemblage of parts for either a 750 or an 850TC (or even a true replica of either). =(

I'll bet it revs nice, though! Just drive it & enjoy it. =)
Jeff Stich
Norco, CA, USA

Offline zippyfiat

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Re: INFO WANTED: Abarth 750 Berlina
« Reply #23 on: October 07, 2009, 06:56:35 PM »
I think Jeff just tries to pretend he knows something about these cars!  :)  Very good eagle eyes.

A few things I noticed:  The obvious ones are that the front rad. housing and steering wheel are much later.  I think the rear deck lid props are wrong as the wing nuts don't look right (would have to dig mine out to see).  The gauges are later type, so I'm guessing the PO simply installed a complete set of gauges and housing as opposed to reusing the speedo and triple oil/water/fuel gauges. The front fender flares look wrong to me and look like later TCT type.  It's hard to tell by the one photo, but the rear fender flares look completely wrong in shape and seems more like a custom or homemade modification.

The car has obviously been repainted.  The interior floor mats are missing and the door upholstery panel is wrong.  It seems like this car is a much altered original Abarth, or an attempt at a clone as Jeff notes, and repainted along the way.  The fuzzy photos make it hard to see more clues.  I wonder if maybe the PO had an original car that got destoryed and he salvaged some of the bits and pieces?  Shouldn't there be the Abarth serial no. stamped in the engine compartment?

If you look at the floor jack in the 2nd photo, you can see a reflection which is bounced off the tool chest, you can see the faint outline of the glass in the driver's door.  This seems to show no 1/4 window......

Offline viotti600

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Re: INFO WANTED: Abarth 750 Berlina
« Reply #24 on: October 07, 2009, 09:15:45 PM »
I think Jeff just tries to pretend he knows something about these cars!  :)

Just flying by the seat of my pants...how am I doing? LOL.

I think the rear deck lid props are wrong as the wing nuts don't look right (would have to dig mine out to see).

  Originals did have the wing nuts on the upper bolts, in order to easily adjust the props either to the decklid fittings (open) or to the engine bay rail fittings (closed). I can see that this car is missing the upper fitting on each engine bay side drip-rail.

The gauges are later type, so I'm guessing the PO simply installed a complete set of gauges and housing as opposed to reusing the speedo and triple oil/water/fuel gauges.

  I'm assuming by "later type", you're talking about 850TC gauges. We both know the 750 had nothing like this (I say this only to clarify for the owner of the car).

The front fender flares look wrong to me and look like later TCT type.  It's hard to tell by the one photo, but the rear fender flares look completely wrong in shape and seems more like a custom or homemade modification.

I presumed these were both part of the previous owners' modifications (again, the 750 had neither of these).

Shouldn't there be the Abarth serial no. stamped in the engine compartment?

My info to date says that the familiar Abarth alloy VIN/ID tag was not used on the 750 Berlina like it was on the alloy-bodied coachbuilt 750's. The 750 Berlina also did not have an ID stamping on the muffler shroud like the later 850TC variants (remember, he's asking if this is a 750). His muffler shroud is obviously long-gone by now! LOL

If you look at the floor jack in the 2nd photo, you can see a reflection which is bounced off the tool chest, you can see the faint outline of the glass in the driver's door.  This seems to show no 1/4 window......

Ok, you lost me on this...I can't see what you're talking about at all. ???
Jeff Stich
Norco, CA, USA

Offline zippyfiat

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Re: INFO WANTED: Abarth 750 Berlina
« Reply #25 on: October 07, 2009, 10:06:34 PM »
I thought the Abarth wing nuts on the props were a somewhat different shape/size?  From what I have seen, the later gauge faces are different than the early cars that had the "pie plate" housing.  At least they were on the original cluster I bought (and since sold except for 2 gauges).  I was wondering if some of the early Abarth sedans used stamped serial numbers on the chassis   I guess that's a reason why it's so difficult to tell if the early cars are genuine.

My last comment was meant as a joke.  :(  Not doing okay here, LOL!

Gil Nicholls

ps: Haven't figured out now you do the highlited reply thing you do.

Offline viotti600

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Re: INFO WANTED: Abarth 750 Berlina
« Reply #26 on: October 08, 2009, 09:55:56 AM »
ps: Haven't figured out now you do the highlited reply thing you do.

Easy. To the right of the title of this response, you'll see the little blue box that says "Quote". Simply click it. You'll then note my response text (of my post) has some simple HTML code before it & after it - basically code enclosed in square brackets like these [ ]. You can either write a response to my entire (quoted) post, or if you want to respond to a few written lines (ideas) separately you can copy/paste the HTML that goes before/after the particular text you're responding to (to make it stand out in its own purple box).

The HTML that goes before the quoted text starts with [quote author...(basically telling the computer to "begin quote"), then there's the actual text you want highlighted, then the HTML to say you want to "end quote" [/quote

Note that I can't actually write the full code to show you, because the forum software will simply translate that as real instructions & will make THAT text into a quote.

See? I'm using your name, but this is what happens when I try to write/type the HTML code to show you...

You use the "begin quote" and the "end quote" HTML to basically mark the text you want highlighted (to respond to), sort of like you'd write quotation marks before & after a particular word or phrase you're emphasizing. Got that? ;)
Jeff Stich
Norco, CA, USA

Offline Derek

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Re: INFO WANTED: Abarth 750 Berlina
« Reply #27 on: October 09, 2009, 04:13:26 AM »
Well, were to start.  The rear tail lights and the front side markers were updated by the previous owner as were the flares and the front radiator.  The front scorpion emblem was also replaced as I was told the old one had fallen apart.  The dash never had the hole to the left.  Measured there is enough room and the metal extends a bit under the dash and there was never a hole at the same distance as the one on the far right.  Yes I know the mats are missing and the pad under the dash is off.  The seats have been modifed as well.  The steering wheel was also upgraded by the previous owner.  The steering column is not 850.  I have a PBS built twincam turbo 850 coupe next to the Abarth.  The owner said he got it from a double bubble but maybe it was a different Abarth.  The previous owner also had a twincam aluminum bodied abarth.

Yes the car was repainted and is totally rust free.  The car is not a 600D it is a 600 with a 600 Abarth transaxle which was pulled and confirmed by Paul at PBS.  Two owners ago he said he blew up the 750 engine and replaced it with an 850.  Remember that 750's were slow and considered pretty much worthless so people didn't care if they updated them.  The previous two owners didn't care at all.  They had a "real" aluminum bodied Abarth.

The firewall has also been cut for room for the PBS single cam engine.  I have the original firewall pieces that I will put back in when I make the engine fuel injected.

I am not interested in returning the car to its original stock state.  I quite enjoy the upgrades, it is in the spirit of Abarth himself.  I love the PBS twincam as there were less than 40 ever made with very few still running.  Plus this one will go like stink.  I just want to keep any original 750 parts that don't lower its performance. 

The car may be a very updated Abarth 750 from the factory or it may have been built as an Abarth kit.  Either way I can't prove it nor do I care.  When all 140 hp hits I will be grinning.






Offline guy moerenhout

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Re: INFO WANTED: Abarth 750 Berlina
« Reply #28 on: October 09, 2009, 08:44:44 AM »
I always say ,you must have a car that YOU like,iff you dont like it sale it .Iff someone wish that you change it more to original than you can ask what he have.Cars like this must be driven and use for driving with FUN.A abarth was always changing in his live and NEVER was a racing our rally car two times the same.In the Abarth factory the build race cars with a hamer and so light possible and never look to original.Iff you have Real Race  our Rally car than you can see that the where never smooth our like new out of factory.If you only wish to have a client car that go to a Show its your option not someone that wish to drive (LIVE)with your car.I think whe must be happy that there are may persons that put other type of engine in a car other wish it was not fun.But this is MY opinion(and I think it was Carlo's to)
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Offline Derek

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Re: INFO WANTED: Abarth 750 Berlina
« Reply #29 on: October 12, 2009, 08:25:31 PM »
This just goes to show how many different games can be played in the car hobby.  Some guys love the game of making a car as close as possible to how it left the factory.  They devote tons of hours to research and so on to make an automotive time capsule.  Others are into polishing their cars from top to bottom and showing them.  Others race and others make street cars.  Still others do custom creations of some sort or another.  Jeff, it is obvious you are into the first one mentioned.  I am not.  I personally would not buy a stock Abarth 750.  For me it is too slow and too unusable however neat and historic they may be but I would definitely admire one when I saw it.

In my mind a Shelby mustang is still a Shelby even when it is modifed to go faster.  So what if the engine is now 350 cubes and it has flares, cool, its faster and still a Shelby.

My car is a higly modified Abarth 750.  It is not a clone as it is an Abarth.  Does it still have the original engine, nope, it blew up many years ago.  What is does have is a very period correct PBS Twincam conversion that is likely worth more that the car and its connected to the original Abarth transaxle.  And if I choose to put on rear flares it still isn't a 1970 1000 Corsa replica.  It is an Abarth 750 with flares. 

My Abarth 750 with the turbo PBS twincam is very fast.  So fast I will have to do many more upgrades to the suspension so I don't end up killing myself in it.  I raced a 1000 Corsa clone back in the late 80's and early 90's so I know what needs to be done.  But stronger stub axles and heavy springs with bigger swaybars don't stop it from being an Abarth 750. 

From your point of view the previous owner ruined the car.  When I am done with what I will do to it you will for sure think I have ruined the car.  You see I bought the car because of the engine not inspite of it.  From my point of view I can now do stuff with it as it is fast enough and handles well enough to bother playing with.  Are you wrong, nope.  Am I wrong, nope.  We just have two different games that we are playing with cars.  As Guy said, Abarth never raced the car in the same configuration twice.  He continued to upgrade them as can be seen in the evolution from 600 - 750 - 850 - 1000 and from street to race version.  I feel I am just continuing that legacy.  However, I do not want it to lose some of the 750 charm.  Because of that I will put the fiat script back on and may put the hood trim back on.  I don't think I will put on the taller tripod decklid support.  I will leave the 850 TC dash is it is more functionable and I like it.  I may even put in carpet instead of the rubber mats because it is lighter.  The interior, except for the roll bar and seats will be returned to standard trim.

The reason I got onto this topic was so that I could make sure and keep the 750 flare as original as I can within the constraints of my intended use.  Like the tail lights will be returned to original.  The previous owner liked the euro look, I don't.  I have the housings but the lenses are missing.  Unfortunatly, the previous owner sold the pieces he took off the car so I have to find them again.

I am always interested in sharing information regarding these great cars and may we all have fun with whatever our car game happens to be.