Topic: Early front radiators

[zippyfiat]

I have an early style front radiator shroud (from Guy), and original Abarth radiator and new Euro style bumpers.  How does the shroud attach?  Do I need to epoxy on a bracket of some type so that the bumper bolt will hold it in place?

From photos I have seen (and there aren't many around), that there was an aluminum (or chromed metal?) insert (2 total) on the uprights of the shrouds.  Are these available anywhere??

How did Abarth attach the radiator to the body?  Is there any info. around anywhere?  See the photos below for what I have now.

Thanks,
Gil

[Paul vander Heyden]

Gil,

I believe that the particular radiator that you have there was the one that was used by Abarth "under" the car, forward of the transaxle.  No matter, it simply means that you will have to fashion some type of bracket for each side.  Something that Abarth did many times I am sure.   I would suggest bending up an aluminium bracket  that matches the curvature of the lower front facia panel and then has two tabs horizontally (parallel to the ground) where you can mount the tabs on each side of the radiator. I would bend up a second set of curved pieces of aluminum, with the same hole pattern as the external mount, and use these as a backing plate on the inside of the facia panel.  This will make for a very strong, yet lightweight mount.

As far as the shroud goes here is my suggestion.  Make up two "T" pieces, consisting of a cross piece and a bolt.  Make sure the bolt is long enough (see later on in description) On the inside/back of each of the upright sections of the fiberglass shroud , where they are intended to slip over the bumper, I would fiberglass in the T-piece.  Now, carefully center the shroud to the bumper and then drill two holes in the bumber.  Then make two aluminium blocks with a hole drilled in the center and round off two edges so that the block more or less matches the inside curvature of the bumper. These can be placed over the bolt once it is through the bumber to take up the load of the nut/lock/flat washer assembly that you would then use to affix the shroud to the bumper. 

Thinking about it some more, I would probably mount the shroud first, making sure it is in the center of the bumper, and then worry about aligning and mounting the radiator itself.  Once you have the radiator mounted, I would probably make up two straps going from the bottom of each upright section on the shroud to the same location where the radiator is bolted to its mount.  This will substantially brace the fiberglass shroud and keep it from fatique cracking for a longer period of time.

Hope this gives you some ideas.

Regards,

Paul Vanderheyden

www.scuderiatopolino.com

[batman]

I have the same problem,circa 1959 Fiat Abarth 1000TC------ does the small front water radiater mount under the front valance /bumper bar or does it fit above, exectly were the licence plate should fit, any ideas,       thanks    Dave.

[Pantdino]

Looking at photos in Abarth the Man and the Machines, 1964 was the first year there was any radiator in the front. It  mounted between the overrider bars, with its bottom edge in line with the bottom of the overriders--see Gil's photos.
1965 saw the introduction of the first real fairing, the type with the "wings" coming from the midlevel of the sides.
1966 saw the larger, more slab-sided fairing

Jim.

[viotti600]

  According to page 143 of Cosentino's book "Abarth Guide" - "The (1961) 850TC Nurburgring Corsa version had a small front radiator homologated which was mounted underneath the front bumper. Also homologated was a light-weight tubular guard to protect the radiator". A photo is shown of this set-up, which was basically the precursor to the type of small front-bumper-mounted radiator with fiberglass shroud that incorporates the 2 vertical bumper overriders, like Gil is using.

  Page 204 of the same book says that mid/late 1963 saw the introduction of the small front radiator fiberglass housing like Gil's. You can also see photos of this set-up on pages 248, 249 & 252 in the book "Abarth  - the Man and the Machines". Page 175 of the book "Abarth Catalogue Raisonne" has yet another photo, and also dates it as 1963.


Cheers,
-JS.

[naegeli]

mine is a 1961 and radiator is like that

[batman]

thanks, but do the water pipes come through the front panel or do they enter the radiator from underneath

[naegeli]

will have to go and check...if i recall well, it is thru frontpanel.  will take pictures. if not someone else post some.

[Pantdino]

In the only photos of that kind of radiator I see in Abarth: The Man and the Machines the area is in shade so I can't see. But the bottom of the radiator seems to align with the bottom of the sheet metal, so there would be no reason to run the lines thru the front panel.

Jim

[Pantdino]

mine is a 1961 and radiator is like that

Naegeli,

Do you have any video or other photos on line we could all enjoy?

Jim

[cormonov]

Hi all
Seek in my info I find this:
- First lower (under body) radiator in september 1961 in 500 km Nurburgring – over an Abarth 850 Tc  . This radiator come in all serie´s  cars versione "Nurburgring" and offered in the upgrade kit for the Abarth enthusiasts.
-  1963 . Second version with the same radiator located in front but under the body line - called "Tour the France"  over  a berlina 850 corsa. I think the radiator is not the same of the first version, possibly more little in lenght.  The radiator is protected with a light steel pipe structure in order to protect it
-   1964. Third version with   the radiator located in front of the car but bit upper of the second version, directly under the front bumper line, between the two chrome bumper horns.- Used in the Monte Carlo Rally . ( the radiator is cover with a metal shape for protect it of the snow. Really Abarth use the metal cover because the homologation is not ratified at this time ! ) . ( Abath 850 & 1000 TC by Nada editore)
- 1964. new cover seeing in the 500 Km Nurburgring , the design have a fiberglass? single part including the bumper horns.  The radiator is little bigger
- 1964  Sept~Nov ?   - Abarth develop the prototype for the next year  fourth  front radiatore version, more bigger and mounted over the 850 TC montecarlo car  ( 387495 TO ) , this radiator have more capacity and have a first version of the fiberglass ? rectangular “carenatura” . (This “carenatura” don´t have the two little wings at sides incorporated to the next year).
- 1965.  in the 4 Ore di Monza some Abarth  cars (850´s & 1000´s) have the final  design of the fourth version of the front rectangular "carenatura" with the  bigger radiator and the two little sided wings between the radiator and the each fender.
- 1966. Prototype  of the fifth version -  The same fourth version but with  a second fiberglass piece with two covers over  the lower space of each little  side wings.
- 1966. 4 Ore di Monza , Abarth cars with the final fifth version . single fiberglass piece seeing to the finale versions. In this year the cars are presented with the grey base colors and the checkered  paint scheme at top.


pictures soon

Bye
Cornelio

[cormonov]

pictures of the versione 1 ( 1961~1962 )

[viotti600]

  It should be noted that, although those photos of the under-car auxiliary radiator system are dated 1961-62, it was actually created/used a few years before that for the Abarth 750 derivatives, not just the later 850TC/1000TC cars. The text in the brochure also points out "For 600 Derivation Abarth 750".

Gil,
 I scanned a couple photos from an actual Abarth parts catalog booklet I have, which is titled as being for the 850TC Nurburgring, the 850TC Nurburgring Corsa, the 850TC Nuovo Nurburgring Corsa and the 1000 Berlina Corsa.

The front bumper-mounted auxiliary radiator kit is called out specifically as:

32. 114D/D.17.000 - "Impianto di raffreddamento supplementare <<lungo>> tipo <<Tour de France>> completo".

  From the looks of the hose/tubing shape, it would appear that the coolant tubes run under the car, over the front suspension, and then under the spare tire-well without piercing through the front body sheetmetal. (Note that the system shown is the first version that had the radiator hanging a little lower under the bumper, using a metal-tubing surround for protection).

-JS.

[cormonov]

versione 2 pictures - ~1963

[zippyfiat]

Thanks for the info. J.S. and Cormonov.

What I am trying to do is the setup from late 1964 (as per Cormonov) that has the small fiberglass shroud (see my photos above).  I thought that this was used a bit earlier than that though?  I want to make sure that this is appropriate for a suicide door car, but weren't  '64s rear hinged doors?

I have the underbody Abarth radiator (used) and new coolant pipes (BM reproduction I think).  I really don't want to use the undercar radiator as I think it is way to susceptible to damage, especially on a lowered car.  Cosentino's ABKAR book has a very good drawing/photo of the undercar installation.

I am still lost on exactly how the front radiators were installed.  I will likely ask BM someday.  I got the front rad. from Guy (along with the shroud), but it is actually a BMW oil cooler. (!)  That drawing for the piping for the front rad. is helpful J.S.  I just wish there were some photos and/or drawing of how the rad. itself  was mounted.  I will be using the Abarth 750 rad. I got from you and will have to fab. a sheet metal belly pan.  I think there is at least one half decent photo in one of Cosentino's books on the the front rad and fiberglass shroud installation.

Gil

[trevor]

Gil,
Re conventional doors on 600's:   
Madaro, in his book  Fiat 600 and Multipla (Giorgio Nada Editore), says conventional doors commenced  "dal Maggio del 1964, dalla vettura n. 1,821,001..... (loosely..from May 1964, from body number 1,821,001) . Introduction in various markets probably occured some months later where earlier assembly kits were still in stock.

Trevor

[batman]

Thank you guys for all that typing! It seems I have the the intermediate type front alloy( large)radiator with the glass fibre surround under the front panel, unfortunately every time I go over a speed -hump fast( we have lots of these things here in the UK) I rip the thing off, lose all the water and have to get towed home!  Dave.

[cormonov]

Hi Gil, the Trevor´s info is ok and have very good details about the year and chs  numbers refered to the doors,  additionally  is important to consider in fact that the racing cars adopted  the new designs but in most of cases the chassis   are 1962 - 63 and 64  perhaps with exception of the last official cars. Anyway I can see some pictures of the official cars in  Monte Carlo with suicide doors in 1964 and with the little radiator located in front and upper position. ( see the pic  and the metal cover history in my first post) . About this in my notes  the 3rd version ( fiberglas shroud) is the evolution of the "tour the france" version  with a best located radiator in order to protect it of the damage of the 1st version (under body) and 2nd front lower position (remember the tube protection structure of the second version) .  This front upper  location is best  in look but little poor in cooling performance because the air flow make a little "S"  form to be evacuated  towards the low of the car ; maybe for this the development go to a higger rad ( and the need of cooling more powered engines of course).
bye
Cornelio.

[zippyfiat]

Hi Cornelio, thanks for the additional information and photos.  The radiator and shroud in the second photo is the one I am attempting to do.  I have not yet seen a closeup photo(s) or diagram(s) of how the shroud and rad. were mounted.  I think I can mount the shroud okay, and will do it as per Paul's suggestions.  I am unclear as to how the rad. itself was mounted.  I can of course invent something, but would much rather duplicate what Abarth did.  Do you know if the was a screen in front of the radiator to protect it, or was it simply exposed, like it would have been under the car?

Page 37, issue no. 1 of Cosentino's AOI book has a photo of a factory '62 850TC Corsa with the rad./shroud in your second photo (the one I am doing).  It shows the piping going through the front of the nose panel, not under it.  The piping then goes through into the footwell on the passenger side.  The piping is not under the car.  There is no bumper on the car in the photo either.

Gil