Author Topic: Front suspension  (Read 13021 times)

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Offline Pantdino

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vizza motorsports front axle
« Reply #15 on: June 05, 2007, 04:53:31 AM »
Hi again Rocky,

There's also this front suspension from Vizza.    http://www.vizza-motorsport.de/media/produkte/3.jpg
I understand that if you have a lot of time and good metalworking skills but not much money it may make sense to build your own.
Maybe you can use the photo as a guide to design your own parts. 
But you will still have to get springs and shocks.  And be very careful to make the parts and welds strong enough, because if an A-arm breaks when you are going fast it could make for a very bad accident.

Jim


Offline Rocky

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Re: Front suspension
« Reply #16 on: June 06, 2007, 01:09:45 AM »
Thanks Pantadino, I am realy thankful.

Well I have never seen reverse leaf spring and I am not sure how the car handle with it??? By the way, I can not open first pic.

I realy don't know what to do now... You people have opened to many topics. So now I have few questions:

1) how does reverse leafspring looks like and does it needs coilover with or without spring?
2) if I decide to manufacture my idea, does anybody knows wich coilovers and springs sholud I use?
3) Is it possible to buy only springs that are made for that weight? By the way, wich weight should it support? How much do 2 springs cost?
4) Is it possible to use any other coilovers and to rebuild it?

Thank you everybody, you are realy helping me.

Offline Abarthfan

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Re: Front suspension
« Reply #17 on: June 06, 2007, 07:30:33 AM »
Hallo Rocky,

leaf spring is shown on www.abarth.nl [nofollow] . It is leaf spring which is similar to original Fiat 600 leaf spring but the eyes on the ends are turned to other side so it makes car lower (about 50mm). It is not necasar to use springs in front of car.
If you would like to make spring by some spring factory. If you show them original Fiat 600 spring (dimensions... and charakteristic) they will know what is possible to make if you want it harder and lower.
And if is possible to rebuilt somethig?... yes everything is possible :o)) ...

and try this sites: www.abarth.cz [nofollow]  - maybe will be hard for you that it is in czech language
and my site: www.ef600.wz.cz [nofollow] ...  maybe something helps you
and: www.scuderiatopolino.com [nofollow]  - there are lots of things and ideas which helps you for shure

Offline Paul vander Heyden

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Re: Front suspension
« Reply #18 on: June 06, 2007, 04:45:38 PM »
Rocky,

There are several companies that market coilover shock absorbers, and the most affordable ones are either AVO or SPAX.  You can order shocks from them complete with springs if required.  For the front of a 600 chassis I would use a 250 lb. (115 kg) spring.  I use a 200mm long spring with a 75mm spacer spring in the front.   For the rear you will need VERY short coilover shocks that have a "pin type" mounting on both ends.  I ended up having these custom made as I could not find anything short enough as a standard product.  Spring rate should be somewhere around 350-380 lb (160-170 Kg).  You can use a longer shock if you raise the top, rear shock mount.  Usually this means welding in a piece of round tube with a top plate with a hole in it for the shock to mount.

The reverse eye leaf spring is an OK modification.  You must be sure that it is done by someone who knows springs.  There is some planning that must be done,  if you are going to do this yourself.  If the idea is to make a track racer, then you want a spring that only has a small "arch".  The bigger the arch, the more camber change that will occur during wheel travel.  You will want to put a transverse link in between the center bolt on the spring and one of the frame rails of the chassis.  What this does is limit how much the center section of the leaf spring (between the two frame rails) can flex.  It effectively makes the leaf spring into two 1/4 elliptical leaf springs and does stiffen the rate of the spring.  It also helps in locating the spring and making sure that it stays centered.  If you use the leaft spring, then you do not need coil springs.  There were several Fiat 600 cars homologated with both a leaf spring and a coilover unit.  In this arrangement the leaf would likely have been used as nothing more than a semi a-arm, and the total of the leaf and coil would have made up the rate of the spring system.

The amount of lowering that takes place will depend on how much you de-arch the leaf spring and the distance you move the eye at the end of the spring.  If the eye is 25mm above the spring blade now and will be 25mm below the spring blade when the reconfiguration is done, then the front will be 50mm lower.  Add to this the amount the spring was de-arched, and you have the total that the car was lowered.  The person doing the de-arching should make sure  that the overall width of the spring does not exceed the width of the standard spring (when fully compressed and flat) by more than 4mm per side, or the track on the car will be off. and the front will have too much negative camber.  Finally, when lowering the car, and using standard shocks in the standard location, it is possible to lower the car so much that there is virtually NO travel left in the shocks.  This can cause very severe handling problems, such as instant oversteer.

Hope this helps.

Regards

Pauyl Vanderheijden
www.scuderiatopolino.com

Offline Rocky

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Re: Front suspension
« Reply #19 on: June 06, 2007, 08:46:56 PM »
Hi everybody,

thank you for information about all these things. It realy helps.

@Paul , I have seen here in Serbia that some of the owners put LADA NIVA shoks in the back. This is defenetly true, because I used to have them in the back and I am thinking of purchasing them again. I am not sure weather you had problmes with that, but if I understand you right, you've done some reparation with yours.

Cheers everybody

Offline Paul vander Heyden

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Re: Front suspension
« Reply #20 on: June 07, 2007, 02:10:15 PM »
Rocky

If you go to my website www.scuderiatopolino.com and click on the parts page, go to Item # 8056 and then click on the 'camera" button on the far right. This will give you a detailed photo of the rear shocks.  You can do the same for other items that I have listed there.

It is all a matter of 1) extended length, 2) compressed length 3) total travel 4) available suspension movement.  When preparing a car for racing, as in what I do most, the suspension will be lowered quite a bit.  In this case the available suspension movement, before the trailing arms hit the chassis bump stops will become less and less.  If the compressed length of the shocks is 200mm, and the suspension travel left is 220mm, then the total "working suspension travel" is only 20mm.  It does not matter that the extended length is 350mm for example.  This only means that the wheel can go into 'droop' a long way.

Ideally shock should work in compression between 30-50% of the total working length.  That is why on some cars is is necessary to 'raise' the top mount location so that you do not bottom out the shock, as it may damage the shock absorber, and make sure that you have sufficient shock travel both in compression and rebound.

Regards,

Paul
www.scuderiatopolino.com

Offline Rocky

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Re: Front suspension
« Reply #21 on: September 04, 2007, 12:24:44 PM »
Hello Abarth people,

Yesterday I have found complete suspension from NSU Prinz (I think Prinz II). Rear and front shocks with springs. It has allmost the sam coilovers like Abarth 1000 TCR. Am I wright? I was thinking of using them with crosmember??? What do you people think, will it work? Is it maybe soft or hard or something else that won't work???

Thanks everybody.

Offline Paul vander Heyden

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Re: Front suspension
« Reply #22 on: October 07, 2007, 12:46:12 AM »
Rocky,

How did you progress on your front suspension?

Here is a link to a site that describes how to strengthen the front chassis area.

http://users.ntplx.net/~kinukoyc/Pages/tech_pgs/front_susp.html

Regards,

Paul Vanderheijden
www.scuderiatopolino.com