Topic: Heating problems

[ChrisD]

 Hello,

I recently installed an A112 engine to my Fiat 600. The engine was originaly 903cc, regrind to 930cc, A112 Abarth head and Webbwer 32DMTR carburator. Cam I don't know. The previus owner of the engine had the Abarth head installed, maybe he installed the Abarth cam too. It was in a good condition so I used it when I regrind the engine. I have new oil pump, new water pump and an electric fan instaled on the standard Fiat 600 radiator, but with revese air flow. I have a water temp gauge installed and during driving the temp is high. I don't want to cause any damage to the engine. Any suggestions of what to do?

 Whould an oil radiator from A112 Abarth engine do any good? Maybe a front mount radiator combined with the standard 600 radiator?
 Please help

[guy moerenhout]

first and best for road use are two radiators .Second see that the air  out the cilinderhead is coming and go to waterpomp

[zippyfiat]

If you want your car to look as stock as possible (at  least on the outside), I would get a radiator custom made.  You can get one made that hangs down below the car about 3 inches (75mm) and that also has a thicker core.  Then, you can also remove the original 600 fan and install an electric fan.    You can also use the A112 short water pump this way.   I have seen all of this done before.  You would need to mount a thermostat sensor in the new radiator core too.

As Guy mentioned, you can install an auxiliary radiator under the car, like Abarth used to.  These were about 3 inches tall.  The only problem with these is that they are susceptible to damage, especially if the car is lowered.  These are relatively easy to install and to plumb.  You could get a radiator shop to make one for you.  You could also install a front mounted radiator.  Abarth used a couiple of different shrouds.  There is the large Berlina Corsa one that most are familiar with, and the smaller ones that were used on the early cars.  On some early cars, Abarth mounted the front rad. without a shroud (or the owners took them off).  The early front rads had a much smaller shroud, and one of these might be suitable for your car.  Guy has the early shrouds and radiators (ibought these from him last year).

Don't forget that if you are going to use the original 600 cooling air setup, that it is critical that you have the original "belly" pans installed on the left and right side of the engine.  These are often missing on cars.

Gil

[guy moerenhout]

also not to forghet that iff you fit front a fan on radiator it must blowing  and best is like abarth did after the radiator and sucking the air

[ChrisD]

 I allready have installed an electric fan to the standar 600 radiator. I have also installed a fron TCR spoiler, so I guess I will just install a front mount radiator in it. Do I need to install a second water pump in that case or the A112 pump will handle it???

 Does anyone have dimentions of the radiator or a picture so that I can get an idea of how it is mounted?

[ChrisD]

I ordered the front mount radiator in a radiator shop. Dimentions I used is 75x15x3 cm. I will not use an electic fan in this one. Will the A112 pump handle the water circulation?

[zippyfiat]

Your A112 pump will be fine, as long as the piping under the car is not too small.  I had the front rad setup on a 600 I owned once.  I used 1.25 inch diameter electrical conduit under the car and standard radiator flex hoses to connect it all up.

You might want to consider installing a front fan eventually.  At 3 feet wide, your front rad. is plenty big enough (that's wider than Abarth used). and you don't need the rear one in addition.  If you took that out, you would need a fill tank though.  I used to run the front rad. without a fan, and it only used to start to overheat while sitting at a stoplight for something like a minute or more.

Gil

[ChrisD]

I thought of installing a front fan as well but the free space is to small and the electric fans just to big. If I could find one that is to thin maybe I could install it. You think one from a motorbike would be ok? I don't want to cut the front of the car because I need the spare weel in front.

The rear radiator is starting to leak so I might remove it complety and install an oil radiator in its place.

[guy moerenhout]

you to your Airco men ,but bike  fan must work to

[ChrisD]

What kind of hoses do I have to use to conect the front radiator? Do I use rubber hose all the way or is it better to use a plastic or a metal hose?

[Abarthfan]

I thing that better will be if you use combination tubes and ruber hoses.Bud if you prefer ruber hose so use hose with steel strut because of deformation (temperature,pressure...)

[ChrisD]

After all this time that I use the 2 radiators I desided to remove the rear one and leave only the front one and see what hapens. The car keeps getting overheated when I am stuck in traffic or a stoplight. The main reason is that the re is too much water resistan with the 2 radiators installed for the A112 water pump to handle, espesially when the car has low rpm. If I just leave the front one the water pump will work better, but in order to do that I need to install a fan (or two) in the front radiator. The space I have lesft is little so anyone has any sugestions about a fan installation? Maybe a brand that constructs small fans?

I get stuck in traffic many times and I just dont like the car being overheated. Now that it is winter it is better, but during the hot summer I barelly used the car because of that reason.

[Vincent]

Hi Chris,

I can give you the following advice.
A stock Fiat 600 radiator is made to cool an engine with about 30 or a little more horsepower.
If you use an engine with more horsepower it is clear that the capacity of this radiator is not enough.
Abarth has solved this to mount a slightly bigger, copper made radiator. (copper gives away the heat much faster)
I have recently sent my stock 600 radiator to a radiator shop to have the mentioned done and there is a big improvement.
Although the engine i use is about 70-80 hp, the temperature stays just below 90 degrees Celcius.
If you want to improve this, you can mount the additional radiator Abarth uses between the rear wheels.
This will bring down the temperature with another 10-15 degrees, according to Abarth. ( I am in the process of mounting this unit myself, but cannot give you the result since i am not finished yet )

Mounting an oil cooler is maybe not needed since the oil temperature in this setup doesn't nessecary be too high.
You can mount the additionale radiator mentioned also in the front or use the front radiator as used with a 850tc or 1000tc.
Depending on the kind of your you have or want to make.

Good luck, best regards, Vincent.

[ChrisD]

Hi Vincent,

I have an A112 engine with about 60hp and I have already installed an electical fan in the rear stoc radiator with reversed flow (sucking air from under the car to the engine compartment) and a custom made front mount radiator big size like the late 1000TC had. I also have an oil radiator installed. The temp during drive is 70-80 degrees Celcius water temp and about 80 degrees Celcius oil temp during winter. If I get stuck in a stoplight or traffic the temp raises to 80-90. That is no problem for now that it is Winter but during Summer the drive temp was 90 and in traffic 95-100.

Because of the relandie 850rpm when the car is stoped in traffic or stoplight the water pump has a hard time circulating the water to the system, not to mention that when the car is stoped there is no air flow. The electic fan in the rear radiator works all the time and keeps emptying my battery. Installing fans in the front radiator might be one solution. The other is to completly remove the rear radiator, so that the water pump works more easyly and install fans inthe front radiator when the car is in traffic.

Anyone else that has/had the same problems with me please let me know what you did.

[Vincent]

Hi Chris,

From what i understand, reversing the airflow doesn't give any improvement.
In your situation it is important to find out where the air comes from, that you are sucking in your radiator.
Cool wind from the front or hot air from below your engine bay!

I took care that the engine bay shrouds are all  mounted to seal of the engine bay, so no hot air could comes back in the air flow.
( The setup i use is very simple, just the improved copper main radiator and additional Abarth radiator between the rear wheels, air flow as normally used, blowing the hot air out of the engine bay. I don't use an oil cooler. ) Oh forgotten i did replace the round thing ( don't know the word in English ) the fan belt is driving on, so the fan turns faster.

As i suggested before i would have the main radiator checked and the element replaced by a slightly bigger copper one, togehter with the additional radiator you use, it should work fine. Of course when you stop the temperature should raise a bit.
I have no experience with electrical fans, but i can image this works better, driving slowly. Besides this you loose less horsepower because you miss the belt driving the fan.

So it could be a few things causing your problem.

Good luck, best regards, Vincent.